boosting amps. always necessary?

[Lasse Lammert]

damn, I hate this topic and it's already been discussed to death....yet I open another thread about it...
why?
cause I love and hate boosting and I feel like it's really a matter of taste and my taste differs from day to day it seems.

inspired by the latest Überschall recording I sat in my room, put some of my amps on my Mesa cab and tried them with and without boost....
I played the Über, the 6505 and the Recto and all of them (yes, also the recto) were tight enough for palmmuting, chugging etc, even without the boost....
so what I need now is people to convince me that awesome tones can be had without a TS (all my favorites actually have a TS in front of them (most of them are by sneap...)....

I know that Jens Bogren rarely boosts his amps....so give me some more examples of unboosted modern metal-tones....

also I'd like to have your opinion on it in general.


Usually I've always used a boost for modern tones....now it's up to you to convince me to ditch the TS every now and then

 

[Soundlurker]

I think you've reached the point where you can make the decision on your own. You have the ability to dial a good tone and the experience to mix it right, so if you feel that in a specific context a non-boosted amp sounds better - go for it.

 

[Emdprodukt]

my od808 is barely used anymore on my krank setup. but that's because I do different music now (more open chord stuff instead of single note picking). I do think a ts is very usefull for low tunings though, at least for live settings. it seems that it's cleaning up the mids but also some of the lowend in my setup. But lately I just found out for myself how much it really depends on who is playing the guitar. my own setups NEVER worked with any other guitarist. So I do think that using a TS is not a rule no matter if it's a modern metal band.

I know you don't use ampsims, but the TSE X30 released by onquel doesn't seem to need a boost at all and was really tight from the start. when I had a 6505 like two years ago, I never used a ts in front of it. very tight sounding though.

 

[Harry Hughes]

I believe Trevor de Brauw from Pelican doesn't use a boost on his Triple Recto, if we are talking about current day unboosted tones. I could be wrong, but in a Guitar World interview it was only mentioned his co guitarist Laurent Lebec used a Tube Screamer.
Nothing is really necessary as such, but for some situations of course it can help.
If you want to work with sludgier material, I say go for unboosted every time. Not every genre of rock or metal requires a tone that needs tightening up via a TS or SD-1.

Some amps just outright don't really need a boost, since they are tight enough anyway.

 

[Tachy]

I think that ther's some amps that works really good boosted, and other's not...in my little experience probably the 5150 will work good without a boost, but rectos not for metal and modenr stuff.
The framus cobra sound much better without the boost in front, becouse is really tight and with a boost it loose body.
I'm afascinated about this thread, I will do some tests in the next days!

 

[Notuern]

I generally feel that i cant get the snap/attack i want without a boost, but when it comes down to it.. well, when the song is all recorded, kicks, snare, ride, bass, keys etc. cover up that snap/attack anyways, so i guess it depends.
All boosts remove harmonic content from the sound, so if you can avoid it, do so.

One single method wont work on everything, so yeah.. experiment.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

I'm really loving it with and without...
just been jamming a bit with the Über, Recto, 6505, Marshall and Krankenstein......and I'm loving every single one of those amps sooo much with and without boosts....

I wish I could record a metalband that needs a different amp/sound for each song...just so I can have a CD with all my fav amps on it

 

[greyskull]

for me Lasse it totally depends on the guitar and the amp and the style.... Always try without first; and if thats not getting the Guitarist where he wants it; I kick in the 808.
FWIW i dont use a TS any more; but thats probably coz i use a tele and my 800 already has diode clipping.

 

[BrettT]

I'm really liking my Recto lately without a boost. Rectos can get pretty damned tight without one. You just have to be REALLY careful with the gain and bass controls, and a lot of it is the technique. I find myself choking up a bit more on the strings when muting...the closer to the bridge you mute, the more woofy it becomes.

I really like a certain degree of looseness in my tones. The "space" between the notes really helps the tone glue into the mix, as is evidenced in Bogren's work.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Nah, definitely not always necessary. For me it comes down to a couple things. Does the amp have enough gain or sufficient compression? In this case, a stock JCM 800 2203 for example would always need a boost to play "metal" to me. What sound am I going for? When I used 5150s in my old band, I never boosted them. They are plenty tight enough cranked up, chug just fine, and have more character/low end this way. I hate hate hate how overcompressed they can get with a boost.

I'd love to hear a Recto without a boost doing some nice palm muting. \m/ I know they can do it, and it seems to be a matter of settings and volume in this case.

-Joe

 

[Lasse Lammert]

I'd love to hear a Recto without a boost doing some nice palm muting. m/ I know they can do it, and it seems to be a matter of settings and volume in this case.

-Joe

you'l hear it tomorrow


here's a mix btw in which I used an unboosted Recto...it's not really metal though

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...ternative-rock-female-vox-recto-goodness.html

 

[TheDude]

It depends on the guitar/pickup. If the guitar has tons of low end, like my LesPaul Baritone with the Lundgren M6, then hell yes. Not for the boost, but the low cut.

 

[Metaltastic]

my 800 already has diode clipping.

Really? Was that always standard, or only on the 2205/2210 models? (as I recall you have one of those)

 

[Ermz]

Not necessary, but the extra gain stage can be helpful. It doesn't need to be a TS simply because it's a boost. There are a ton of OD drivers, and many styled in the 'blues driver' vein, which are more or less transparent gain boosts. It gives you more tonal versatility and hitting the preamp at a different stage in the amp can cause it to react a bit differently, so why not? It's bit like putting a graphic EQ in the FX loop or driving it into the input... if I had one around I certainly would!

If I could find out how they boosted the recto on the Nickelback albums, then I could die happier.

 

[Full_Tilt]

It seems that many of these so called tried and tested methods are subject to playing style and to which extreme you feel like leaning towards and of course the nature of the amp .
Tightening up the low end may well improve the chuggy parts but if your not a total chug meister then maybe the open unmuted notes wont be to your taste ?!
I suppose it might be viable if your quad tracking to record 2 with and 2 without boosting with a TS or similar.

 

[cobhc]

I'm trying to remember if Burn My Eyes had a pedal in front of the 5150 or not, cos that's a great tone that doesn't "sound" like it was boosted.

 

[cobhc]

Oh and also, I'm pretty sure our own Ola never uses a boost in front of his ENGL's and he get's some fucking killer tones.

 

[Nebulous]

I quite like a boost on amps that are not overly compressed to start off with. Along with the extra attack on single notes, I love the extra grind it adds to held chords on alot of amps.

 

[lolzgreg]

Oh and also, I'm pretty sure our own Ola never uses a boost in front of his ENGL's and he get's some fucking killer tones.

IIRC Engls have a high-pass before the first gain stage, eliminating a lot of mud.

 

[Ermz]

That sounds about right. Their mid-forward characteristic also seems to negate the need for that mid-bump the TS provides as well. In many cases it seems ENGLs actually suffer from a TS.