Century Media suing BitTorrent users... Opinions???

[nailz]

Yes, you are misinterpreting. As usual.

Not sure how you can jump from one extreme to the other with such cunning. Nor am I sure how you cling so tightly to the teat of "digital technology" that even a defense of analogue technology could be considered a "throw off."

It was mostly because it was coming from you.

 

[nailz]

Everyone and their mom trying to make a living off of metal is one of the worst things that has happened to the music.

At the end of the day, it's a hobby. As with any hobby, some people can turn it into a living and make money off of it, most can't. Paying money should be expected and is not necessarily a "bad" thing.

The reality is that in this day and age, when it's relatively easy to record/release an album and EVERYONE is doing it (the number of full length albums released in 2001 was 868, 2011 saw 4273 -- an almost 500% increase and rising) but the amount of $$$ available to purchase those albums has probably decreased, the majority of musicians are gonna lose money. Downloading or no downloading.

That doesn't give anyone an excuse to not put their money where their mouth is but the days of recouping costs are loooooooooooong gone.

This is, by far, the best post ever made on this forum.

 

[nailz]

You answered your question yourself. You can use any of the formats that you mentioned and it only takes a click. Not a lot of effort there. Anyone with a smartphone can do it. And if you can afford a smartphone, you can afford music.

Not only that, but in using these legal means, you're still sitting in front of the very same computer you'll need to be in front of to download these albums.

 

[Rezz]

You answered your question yourself. You can use any of the formats that you mentioned and it only takes a click. Not a lot of effort there. Anyone with a smartphone can do it. And if you can afford a smartphone, you can afford music.

And if you don't have a smartphone? My kids certainly don't have them. How does the music industry think my kids should become fans of Iced Earth or Lacuna Coil?

 

[AngraRULES]

And if you don't have a smartphone? My kids certainly don't have them. How does the music industry think my kids should become fans of Iced Earth or Lacuna Coil?

A decent smartphone with capability of using Spotify these days can cost as low as... oh yeah, $0 with an average 2-yr contract.

Whether or not you choose to give your kids smartphones, however, is up to you and completely irrelevant to the argument.

Also, chances are kids will be at a computer at least once during any given day. If they're interested in music, why not give them $10/month to pay for a legal service (cough Spotify cough) so that they can become fans of Iced Earth and Lacuna Coil?

 

[nailz]

I AM THE LOGIC MONSTER

STOP NOT JUSTIFYING ILLEGAL DOWNLOADING. GET ON THE STEAL EVERYTHING BANDWAGON. EVIL RECORD COMPANIES RAAAAGE!

 

[AngraRULES]

 

[dcowboys311]

And if you don't have a smartphone? My kids certainly don't have them. How does the music industry think my kids should become fans of Iced Earth or Lacuna Coil?

-Video
-Radio
-Commercials
-Press Releases
-Magazine Ads
-Internet Marketing
-Merch Printing
-CD Distribution
-Internet Distribution
-Ad Takeovers
-Promotionals

.

 

[Justin G]

And if you don't have a smartphone? My kids certainly don't have them. How does the music industry think my kids should become fans of Iced Earth or Lacuna Coil?

Take 'em to a show.

 

[pack1fan4life]

Ok, really now, how many of those reach the uninformed fan? The casual fan will not be reached by that stuff for the most part. The diehard fan will find the music regardless.

 

[dcowboys311]

Ok, really now, how many of those reach the uninformed fan? The casual fan will not be reached by that stuff for the most part. The diehard fan will find the music regardless.

The same way the uninformed fan finds band names to download, probably.

How do you find bands you're interested in downloading? Run a massive search and download anything with a cool name and no knowledge of sound or genre?

 

[pack1fan4life]

The same way the uninformed fan finds band names to download, probably.

How do you find bands you're interested in downloading? Run a massive search and download anything with a cool name and no knowledge of sound or genre?

I'll often use the Archives or Last.fm's Similar Artists tool as a resource, along with Youtube's sidebar and stuff like that. For awhile it was Epic Rock Radio. Sometimes I just find a band while browsing.

Is sharing a CD the same as file sharing? Guess how I found out about metal in the first place? It wasn't some record company's resources that did it. I was a diehard country fan, and then a classic/progressive rock fan. A friend mentioned Kamelot to me, and I looked them up on Wikipedia and saw their genre listed as "progressive metal". So I asked him to loan me a CD.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

Ok. Do you think that, in the absence of downloading, those 4.2k albums would have all had their costs recouped?

Maybe not. And I'm not even saying that people who download should be punished by jail or anything like that. I'm just saying that it's a shitty thing to do when you know for a fact how hard musicians work.

How do you find bands you're interested in downloading? Run a massive search and download anything with a cool name and no knowledge of sound or genre?

That's actually exactly what I did, early in the game. I went to Yahoo, typed "power metal", and downloaded anything I found. I discovered Kamelot, Blind Guardian, Sonata Arctica, ect. ect. Then I went out and bought their albums.

That's why I say, I don't think downloading MP3s should be illegal or punishable. I just think downloading without buying is shitty.

 

[dcowboys311]

Is sharing a CD the same as file sharing? Guess how I found out about metal in the first place? It wasn't some record company's resources that did it. I was a diehard country fan, and then a classic/progressive rock fan. A friend mentioned Kamelot to me, and I looked them up on Wikipedia and saw their genre listed as "progressive metal". So I asked him to loan me a CD.

No, because when you borrowed a CD from your friend, he couldn't listen to it. He lost that ability. With file-sharing, you both can listen to it.

Your personal experience doesn't make someone else's effort useless or ineffective. I found out about DaVinci's Pizza at PP due to a friend's recommendation. A lot of other people around here found out about it due to newspaper and internet ads. Me finding it from a friend doesn't make DaVinci's advertising effort pointless.

Like I've mentioned before and continue to mention, I'm an advocate for downloading on a sampling basis. Have I bought every album that I've ever downloaded and enjoyed? No, and I know that's not the right thing to do. Me being a shitty person doesn't make the practice ok.

 

[Rezz]

A decent smartphone with capability of using Spotify these days can cost as low as... oh yeah, $0 with an average 2-yr contract.

Whether or not you choose to give your kids smartphones, however, is up to you and completely irrelevant to the argument.

That $0 phone will cost over $1000 minimum for the 2-year contract - plus another $240 to have Spotify. That is out of reach for most kids unless their parents will pick up the tab. How does the music industry expect people without phones and data plans to become fans of Iced Earth?

My point is that it was essentially free to discover new music when we were kids - radio was much more diverse and the only real cost was buying the albums and tickets to the shows ($8 to see Ozzy & Motley in '84 - you can't even park for that today). Unless you are into Justin Bieber or Lady Gaga or the like the radio is not a viable alternative anymore.

 

[dcowboys311]

My point is that it was essentially free to discover new music when we were kids - radio was much more diverse and the only real cost was buying the albums and tickets to the shows ($8 to see Ozzy & Motley in '84 - you can't even park for that today). Unless you are into Justin Bieber or Lady Gaga or the like the radio is not a viable alternative anymore.

It was free in the 80's to discover new music that record labels pushed. There was a lot more going on back then than just hair metal and pop. I'm willing to bet you never heard Swans or GISM on mainstream rock radio.

It is still free to discover new music today. Radio still exists. College radio exists. Youtube, Bandcamp, the free version of Spotify, Facebook, Reverbnation, Myspace, Pandora, Grooveshark, Turntable.fm, and bands offering their own free music still exist. They are all viable options to find songs and bands. It sounds like you want to find the music you already like and normally have to pay for and find a free method to get it and use it wherever and whenever you like.

I stopped bringing my iPod to work because I can stream so much music on the internet through legal sites for free.

 

[AngraRULES]

That $0 phone will cost over $1000 minimum for the 2-year contract - plus another $240 to have Spotify. That is out of reach for most kids unless their parents will pick up the tab. How does the music industry expect people without phones and data plans to become fans of Iced Earth?

Fair enough. I was going by the assumption you're already paying $50/month for your kids cell phone bill (assuming they don't have a smartphone, that seems to be the average price for a simple line).

How about take them to a show? Let them borrow your CDs? You can still discover "new music" for free on the internet. However, seems that people think it's ok to discover "all music" for free.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

Unless you are into Justin Bieber or Lady Gaga or the like the radio is not a viable alternative anymore.

Unfortunately, this is very true. And I agree with you! But the internet is widely available to most people, and you don't even need to pay to sample music. You can legally sample music for free.

And to be honest, it's not sampling or downloading I have a problem with. It's what you do with that downloading that irks me. I'm happy when people download something and then buy it. That makes sense. It's downloading and then not buying it that annoys me, but you can't stop people from doing that just like you can't stop people from being jerks.

 

[Rezz]

It was free in the 80's to discover new music that record labels pushed. There was a lot more going on back then than just hair metal and pop. I'm willing to bet you never heard Swans or GISM on mainstream rock radio.

But there were a lot fewer choices back then (by which I mean far fewer bands) and much more variety on the radio. My siblings and I have very different tastes in music, but we were all able to find stations that would serve our desired genres. Sure, a lot of bands didn't get radio-play - part of that evolved into the whole Alternative movement in the late 80's and early 90's.

It sounds like you want to find the music you already like and normally have to pay for and find a free method to get it and use it wherever and whenever you like.

No, like I said earlier I pay for Spotify and I buy CDs to support artists, but I am at a good place in life with a steady job and a low interest rate mortgage that leaves me with enough extra money that I can afford some luxuries. I think it's an awesome service and can hopefully become the go-to alternative to illegal downloading. It's not a perfect solution, but it's a step in the right direction.

My questions are much more big picture than that. All the music industry's publicity and radio time goes to the big names, so how is an uninformed listener (without a dad into the genre, or friends to drag him to a show) supposed to get into Iced Earth? All the answers I've seen so far depend on the listener actively seeking it out by reading the right magazine, or visiting the right web site. I don't think that is a formula for successfully attracting new fans - if it takes too much effort they won't bother. I think the music industry depends on file sharing even as they condemn it. If file sharing were to suddenly end tomorrow I think it would result in a loss of CD sales that might sink the music industry once and for all.

I stopped bringing my iPod to work because I can stream so much music on the internet through legal sites for free.

Ditto. Spotify and Google Play. And I only keep audio books on my phone now because it can stream all my music.

 

[Rezz]

And to be honest, it's not sampling or downloading I have a problem with. It's what you do with that downloading that irks me. I'm happy when people download something and then buy it. That makes sense. It's downloading and then not buying it that annoys me, but you can't stop people from doing that just like you can't stop people from being jerks.

100% agree.