First Impressions (dont read if you dont wanna hear about CotE)

[FalseTodd]

Although when I use the word, I generally mean that the ideas represented are sort of a false front, that the intellectual content has been inflated to seem larger than the amount of thought that went into the piece. And of course it's always IMO.

 

[xfer]

sam, are your last two posts contrary to each other, or am i not seeing the connection? because i absolutely agree with the second one and absolutely disagree with the first one.

 

[FalseTodd]

The first post is about what I regard as common usage, and the second post is about my personal usage.

 

[xfer]

oh. well, in my experience, your personal usage IS the common usage. it's what differentiates "pretentious" from hoity-toity or stuck-up or "puttin' on airs" in common speech.

i mean, you can go around saying "i don't like this" and "i don't like that" and mean you feel neutral towards those things, but you're actually connoting dislike unless you clarify.

 

[FalseTodd]

No I totally understand your point, I just don't think the general use of the word pretentious hinges on success or failure, and that if often gets stuck with the meaning of "over [the speaker's] head". It ain't right, but I kind of think that's the way it is.

 

[xfer]

okay. that might be possible, because my experience isn't universal (and i may have misjudged peoples' meanings). however, even in terms of denotation and connotation, there are correct and incorrect ways to use a word, and since pretentious, when used precisely, does imply "promises more than you can deliver" when talking about music, i think it's very wrong to use it, meaning its other meaning, without saying so.

for example, i might refer to "the mood of this song". "mood", when referring to music, does not mean "a single incidence of sulking behaviour", even though that's technically one definition, and might be what 51% of the populace thinks of when they heard the word "mood".

i COULD use "mood" relating to a song and meaning the non-musical meaning of "a single instance of sulking behaviour" (like if the song was about a pouting guy), but i would have to add a clause making that clear, and should not use that meaning without a qualifier.

same with "pretentious" and art.

 

[FalseTodd]

I cannot disagree that people misuse words frequently.

 

[xfer]

Indominatably, and I wish I could say it doesn't even phase me, but it does!

 

[Xtokalon]

the connotation is there- and i use it myself- but imo it's only connotation. i'd say that though it's usual for the word, it isn't essential to the word- since a guy can be "pretentious" in the sense of "high falutin" - and still succeed.

for my part, when i think "pretentious" i'm thinking of a particular sense of the word pretend, being "to take upon oneself, to venture." so, deriving from that, i'm also thinking arrogance and i'm thinking disregard for convention and i'm thinking about how a person who "ventures" anything outside of convention has got to be arrogant in some way. so there's something about "venturing" anything, believing in one's superiority over conventions, and something about how this venturing, as self-confident as it must be in order to take place in the first place, relates to those who would rather prefer the norm -- there's something antagonistic and negative socially going on there. i think this is what most people pick up on when they hear and use the word pretentious, and i think it's for this reason that the word is used in a derogatory sense as often as it is.

 

[avi]

this discussion on the word pretentious is getting quite pretentious

 

[jerkstore]

my copy is currently being shipped...all this talk has me salivating over here.

(by the way, hi, I'm new)

 

[FalseTodd]

Xtok: Generally agreed. Although as far as it relates to Kayo Dot, I don't look at our "deviation from the norm" as a matter of heirarchy and superiority, but we are talking about connotation and implied meanings so...

 

[xfer]

hi JERKFACE

(was that an insult or an honest hello? YOU'LL NEVER KNOW)

 

[jerkstore]

xfer, I think you just melted my brain

 

[xfer]

i executed Science Fiction Formula Ending #54095.

 

[shivering corpse]

I got it today, and I like it quite a bit so far.
I pretty much thought Kayo Dot would sound like a little more experimental version of maudlin of the Well.
I was way off, because I don't think the two projects sound anything alike.
It's a challenging and abstract album, not accessible very much at all, but these kinds of albums tend to be the most rewarding.
I'm actually looking forward to lying in bed tonight so I can just listen to it on headphones with no distractions and hear everything going on in it.
When I made the fake slash quote saying the album coming out "is like santa on christmas" I meant it because albums like this that have a lot of hard work put into them are almost like gifts to the listener, it's something that can take our mind off things and to also just listen to and enjoy.

 

[FuSoYa]

that was a made-up quote???


<--- crushed

 

[shivering corpse]

No, no definitely not made up!
it's just that it was Duff McKagan who said it!

 

[capeda]

I totally hope this new dude's username is a tribute to Seinfeld:

"Yeah? Well the jerk store called, and they're running out of YOU!"

"What's the difference? YOU'RE THEIR ALL TIME BEST SELLER!"

"Oh yeah? Well I slept with your wife!"

"...his wife is in a coma..."

 

[kleo706]

I had high expectations for the album. It did relate to my tenure here, but not because I like any of you. They came from the belief that if certain band members applied the same standards to their own music that they did to that of others... it would be a musically invigorating ride. Preamble aside... I thought I'd share my first impressions.

01. Hippie... hippie... hippie... BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER!
02. Hmm I was told Toby wasn't THAT short.
03. Amazing. The booklet is decaying as I touch it.
04. Interesting bit of cacophony. The way these riffs sound... and those screams... I see Toby really DOES listen to Esoteric.
05. I wasn't expecting THAT. Very nice transition. Odd to hear something metal that actually has a sense of composition as opposed to just cutting and pasting.
06. Hmm this is some seriously confusing stuff. Maybe I should stop thinking so damned hard and just feel like some sort of dirty hippie bastard. AH THERE WE GO!
07. Wow. Man. Wow. Dude. Wow. Fuck... it's making me a hippie by proxy.
08. Epistemological Despondency kills.
09. CURSE YOU CD CHANGER! KAYO DOT AGAIN! NOT MARS VOLTA!
10. That portrait of my kitten she painted fucking rules.