? for the pros concerning the dos and don'ts for guitar tones.

[Robert W]

I'm sure many a guitarist, myself included, has thought, at one time or another, that they had found the "holy grail" of tone, only to find that it sounded useless in a full band setting.

My question, for those of you who do this for a living, is what are the immediate dos and don'ts for a good metal tone. What settings should, generally, be avoided for instance, and what settings, again in general, work better for the guitar tone in a full band setting.

I know mids are vitally important for guitar tones, but which mid freqs are most important, low, mid, highs.

Thanks.

 

[cloy26]

Cool question. Hopefully some bigger guys weigh in on this.

My problem is that my tones are so thin. I'll compare my stuff to Brian Hood, Ermz, Catharsis and like, my guitar tone sounds childish. lol

 

[The Unavoidable]

Low mids are very important, but too much tend to clutter the sound. I don't like to hear low mids, more feel them if that makes sense. High mids are great for pick attack and getting the notes to come through but too much just makes it sound scratchy. I use less and less treble/prescence all the time, I find that using a boost (I use the SD-1) and getting some good gain gets you some decent high end anyway, at least under a SM57. I usually boost the presence on my 6505 during band practice to get it to cut through more.

 

[cloy26]

Well, what I find unbelievable is the use of extreme EQ settings on amps... I just stumbled across a post a few days ago where someone was explaining how extreme the EQ cuts are on the 5150 (mids @ 3 or 2.) That blows me away. Is this common?

 

[kramer1309]

from what i've read on here itself, the 5150 has a very mid-heavy voicing so mids on 2-3 are reasonable i think...

 

[JonWormwood]

Korekt

 

[P-E]

True dat
I heard killer 5150 tones in this forum without post EQ having the mids at about 1 or 1.5, though the recent trend, especially in polished-sounding deathcore, is to have the mids a bit higher, resulting in a somewhat "clearer" sounding tone.

 

[BLUElightCory]

Well, what I find unbelievable is the use of extreme EQ settings on amps... I just stumbled across a post a few days ago where someone was explaining how extreme the EQ cuts are on the 5150 (mids @ 3 or 2.) That blows me away. Is this common?

This brings me to my #1 tip - Don't pay attention to what the knobs say. Just twist them till you like what you hear.

 

[Robert W]

Cool question. Hopefully some bigger guys weigh in on this.

My problem is that my tones are so thin. I'll compare my stuff to Brian Hood, Ermz, Catharsis and like, my guitar tone sounds childish. lol

But do your tones sound thin in a "band setting"?

I wasted so much time trying to get my tones to do everything at once. I didn't take into consideration that the guitar only took up a certain percentage of the overall tonal picture. It was only recently through various conversations w/ individuals who were more skilled than I at this process, did I begin to start to see the whole picture. Not that I saying I know how to dial in perfect tones, quite the opposite, but at least now I have a better idea of where to start.

 

[cloy26]

Yes, very thin in a band setting. Obviously that has a lot to do with my bass tone because that's where the full-bodied sound I'm looking for comes from. Although, I did get a very cool tone I liked a lot using the dual 57 approach... Maybe I'll start using 2 more often.

 

[chrisrivalry]

Not even going to pretend like I can get a decent tone... Therefore, I shall lurk until someone does!

 

[XxRobbieChaosxX]

Don't completely scoop the mids.

Try to avoid increasing around 8k when EQing.

Don't overdo the gain. (If EMG's, the gain is usually around 1-2.5 for me)

 

[metalfanat1c]

Don't completely scoop the mids.

Try to avoid increasing around 8k when EQing.

Don't overdo the gain. (If EMG's, the gain is usually around 1-2.5 for me)

You speak the truth.

If you're using a 6505 (let's face it, most everyone on this forum has one, myself included) don't be scared of the presence knob, but also don't fall in love with it. I find somewhere in between 5 and 6 on the presence knob allows the abrasiveness the 6505 is known for to shine through. I usually boost the green channel with an OD-808 and run the gain around 5. I find that the rhythm channel is tighter AND thicker than the lead channel. I run the treble around 6, mids around 3-4, lows around 6-7. Then I record 4 tracks, and the 2nd pair of tracks are JSX crunch channel with VERY low gain.

 

[colynomial]

It's been said a million times but again the perceived "heaviness" of guitar tone has a lot to do with the bass tone especially in metal where the bass is often doubling the guitars.

Here's a quick clip of a track I was demoing the other day with and without bass. I'm basically just muting the bass for every other measure and you'll see how hollow the mix sounds even with decent sounding guitars.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/818500/EFRwBASSwoBASS.mp3

The mix itself isn't amazing- it was just a basic thing for the sake of demoing the track. But the bass is so critical I think to having big sounding guitars.

 

[crillemannen]

Don't buy a cheap cab. Buy a safe card as Engl or Mesa. Don't use extrem settings.
If you have a great amp you should be fine moving around 5-7 Treble, 3-5 Mids, 5-6 Bass and 2-4 on Gain.
It almost always comes down to how good the guitarist is and how good you are as a engineer to place the mics, but then again its pretty hard to fail when using a sm57 or two.

I don't see any trouble with boosting around 8khz, i do it to add some crisp to the tone.

 

[Robert W]

Colynominal,

The difference between the two alternating measures is pretty dramatic.

Is there a standardized formula for mixing bass and guitar?

 

[colynomial]

Umm, I may not be the best person to answer that question Rob but I've read a few posts around here about building your mixes around the bass being at a certain RMS.

For me, I always just compare against professional mixes to see how much energy is coming from my sub and try to match it.

 

[Robert W]

Umm, I may not be the best person to answer that question Rob but I've read a few posts around here about building your mixes around the bass being at a certain RMS.

For me, I always just compare against professional mixes to see how much energy is coming from my sub and try to match it.

Fair enough.

I remember people used to always say back off the gain, but I could never figure out why they'd say that. I then, rather incorrectly, believed that you had to up the gain to get a heavy tone. Doing so, I wasted a ton of time on trying to get decent "heavy" tones, but always ended up w/ fizz fests instead. I then tried to EQ the fizz out, but ended up w/ dead sounding tones that had no dynamics to them.

I wasn't until relatively recently that I learned that when using the POD's dual tone feature, I could use one tone to shape the first. I remember when I first got POD Farm. i tried making two "heavy" tones, but they just ended up not sounding good. Like they never meshed, and were always competing w/ each other. Luckily, I read a good post about dialing dual tones and that was a huge help. Given the advice I had gotten, I used the first/top tone as the main one, and the second to give to more boost/bass. Nothing too crazy, just enough to flesh it out a little. The results so far have been very good, in that I can get passable metal tones now. Again, nothing great, just usable.

Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to put a bass to any of the newer tones I've worked up, but hope to soon.

 

[kernelxsanders]

This brings me to my #1 tip - Don't pay attention to what the knobs say. Just twist them till you like what you hear.

+1000

 

[Star Ark]

There is no rule, especially when you talk about guitars in a full band. The more time you spend mixing full bands the better you will get at fitting your guitar tone into the mix. Even if someone explains their proceedure to you you still have to be able to hear for yourself what needs to be done.
Practice and listen. And don't forget to leave room for the vocals as well..