Guitar (songwriting) Learning Question

reg3n said:
I know music theory and i couldn't have put all this better, awesome explanation!
Brilliant post, it should be a sticky on it's own IMO. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Thanks :)

Plankis said:
I would play that progression in the key of C. ;) But F major works too.
I generally don't like looking at modes like that. Thinking actively which mode to use over each chord is just overcomplicating things when it really is in the same key.
But modes are a good way of learning the 7 patterns of the major scale, I find putting names on each pattern helps with remembering them.
Click to expand...

Of course ;) But when KNOWING what mode you are playing in and looking for a particular sound, say in this case you wanted something Spanish sounding..... logically to me that just says well play Phrygian :) Its all about knowing the SOUND or COLOR of each mode and knowing what you are going for. That to me is the fun of it :)


jauernis said:
Thanks guitarguru777!! thats why I love this forum! your post has already given me a much better grasp of what i was attempting to understand
Click to expand...


No problem dude :) Its pretty easy to grasp one you understand exactly what you are trying to learn. I think thats the biggest obstacle for my students, when they hear "Music Theory" they get all scared, but then when I tell them to play a Major scale and go "Ok you know all your modes" they go HUH???

Once you can relate it to something you already know and have a grasp on it becomes much easier to absorb.

It will take you some time for you to be have to have someone say ... OK PLAY A i - iv -v in G Major and you to be able to go .... Ok thats G major, C major and D Major off the top of your head, but if you work on it and focus on studying it, it becomes second nature to you.

On top of all this it opens doors for all kinds of arpeggio ideas as a soloist. Being able to connect all the arpeggios on the fretboard to their corresponding keys its vital for that "Becker" "Friedman" "Howe"/ Shrapnel Records shredder type of playing.

On top of that when playing over any extended chords, 9th's, 13th's 11th's you can really focus in on what you are going for. Dorian sounds are 9th chords, Lydian for 11ths and so on ....
 
Thank you very much!

But one part I did not get:

Part 4: Expansion into other keys

You can use the above examples starting from any Major scale. Lets use F major for our next example. The note of the F Major Scale are F - G - A - Bb - C - D - E

So that gives us:
Ionian (Major) - F - 1
Dorian (Minor) - G - 2
Phrygian (Minor) - A - 3
Lydian (Major) - Bb - 4
Mixolydian (Major) - C - 5
Aeolian (Minor) - D - 6
Locrian (Diminished) - E- 7

So if we have a progression that is A minor, D minor and F Major what modes should we play over each chord?
[...]
If you said A Phrygian over the A, D Aeolian over the D and F Ionian over the F major then you got it right! THATS MUSIC THEORY!!!
Click to expand...

I got the right answer because I used the F Major scale as my starting point.
As you said: "Lets use F major for our next example".

But here comes the part I don't understand: when I have just the progression (in this case A minor, D minor and F Major) - how do I know which scale is my starting point for finding the modes?
 
Ahhh .. thats the million dollar question :)

Its multiple keys actually and it depends on the sound you are going for, BUT there are only a few keys that use all 3 chords in their scalular progression. The trick is to find what scales have all 3 in their progression for starters.

So which scales have A minor, D minor and F Major all in their scalular progression. Thats how ... BUT

On top of that you can use quite a few different keys and scales within those keys. You could use the key of C as well for all of these as the key of C has all 3 of these chords in the key. But, do you want just the A Aeolian sound over the A? What if you want a spanish sound over the A and a dark broody sound over the D?

You could use a Phrygian, A Aeolian over the A and go with D - Dorian or D Aeolian over the D. Which tonality do you like better.

The choice is yours :)
 
But here comes the part I don't understand: when I have just the progression (in this case A minor, D minor and F Major) - how do I know which scale is my starting point for finding the modes?
Click to expand...


With only a small part of the whole chord progression like this, it is very hard to tell to be honest without knowing more music theory. Since, in this progression only, there is is an absence of the Bb (F major has 1 flat), and given it starts on an Am, now I am just saying that with ONLY this information, it would more likely be in C major. In fact, if you pick up your guitar and play the progression and then finish on a C major it will resolve. This progression is normally seen at the end of a phrase, called a cadence point and it leads you back to the root or i.

A good rule is: 9 times out of 10 the first chord at the start of the song tells you the key, and if the song ends on the same chord, unless there is a key change in the song, 10 times out of 10.

To be honest its just because in the example random chords were picked out of a key that was already decided and turned into a progression since the aim wasn't to write a song. If there was more to the progression we could see you would either see a Bb appear or it would finish on an F or something to reveal it key or root.

Cheers.
 
Thank you Guitarguru and Pikachu!

Maybe there is some computer program or internet service that gives me the possible scales after putting in a chord progression?
 
All of the info in this thread is great stuff and every guitar player should know it but it always seems like so much to learn to so many. (me Included)
I mean if there are 12 major scales, each containing 7 modes, well thats 84 scales to learn. And thats just the major scales! then you have to do minor, (another 84) then pentatonic major and minor... get my point.

I tend to look at it a little differently these days:

1) Learn all the fret names.
2) Learn all 12 major keys over your entire fretboard including single string scales.
3) Learn the theory behind key signatures including relative majors and minors, Honestly it will make understanding modes sooo much easier.
4) Learn the theory behind modes. (see all the above posts in this thread)
The most common reason for not understanding modes is because we don't want to learn all the info leading up to that point. Truth is, the modal thing is relatively advanced theory and if you skip the basics it will never make sense.

Once you can play all of your major scales, you can already play all your modes!

If you know your fret board well enough you should be able to position yourself close to the root note of each chord as it changes, while just playing through the major pattern. This is the SAME as playing in modes but without all the patterns to learn.

Using chords modally is another subject in its own right and has kind of been lumped in with this thread which may only confuse matters too. Just worry about playing the right scales first.

Cheers.
 
OctoberRust said:
Thank you Guitarguru and Pikachu!

Maybe there is some computer program or internet service that gives me the possible scales after putting in a chord progression?
Click to expand...

Guitar Pro might, I know that it has some lists of scales and that shit, when you put chords down i think it shows notes around it, I never really use that stuff though so i'm no expert haha
 
DONT do it that way. seriously ... write it down on paper and figure it out! Dont get some lame program that will tell you the answers. You will never learn anything that way.

Here is a little exercise I did back in the day to get used to soloing in each mode and to hear how just by changing the mode you play over a pedal tone each mode has its own sound and emotion.

The tone and shit duck I know... i just threw this together fast before dinner :)

http://www.jasoncohenitservices.com/e_modes.mp3

Listen closely to each mode and you will see which ones sound happy, sad, create tension, and so forth. Do this exercise over each tone to hear how they make you feel.
 
guitarguru777 said:
DONT do it that way. seriously ... write it down on paper and figure it out! Dont get some lame program that will tell you the answers. You will never learn anything that way.

Here is a little exercise I did back in the day to get used to soloing in each mode and to hear how just by changing the mode you play over a pedal tone each mode has its own sound and emotion.

The tone and shit duck I know... i just threw this together fast before dinner :)

http://www.jasoncohenitservices.com/e_modes.mp3

Listen closely to each mode and you will see which ones sound happy, sad, create tension, and so forth. Do this exercise over each tone to hear how they make you feel.
Click to expand...

Oh and with this goes .... You can definitely tell which modes I am most comfortable playing in ....lol
 
What's the name of the "instant Vai" scale?
Click to expand...

He normally favors Lydian mode for his slow melodic style which is a form of a major scale. If you already know a major, play it through but raise the forth note you play by one fret. Thats Lydian.

Cheers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
question to proffesional guitarists
Replies
12
Views
1K
Andy Sneap
Zack Uidl
Z
M
Practicing and learning instruments
Replies
21
Views
1K
Power Quest
Thematt202
T
M
Question About Growling
Replies
8
Views
1K
Chat
AndiSmith
A
MegaMustaine
Learning to Scream...Help?
Replies
24
Views
1K
Andy Sneap
JBroll
J
S
Question about melodies
Replies
18
Views
667
Musicians Discussion
Ravenous Enemy
R
Top Bottom
Back