Hot Topic CD!

[Harp Heaven]

Dying Sun:
Just out of curiosity, what bands do you like and how the fuck are all of the bands on that cd mainstream? I`m pretty sure none of them have their songs played on MTV or the radio(excepting special shows). I mean, come on, is Meshuggah mainstream as well? To me they sound very harsh and unmelodic, hardly something the average listener would love listening to. Just because it isn`t polish necro black metal from 1992 given out on cassette only doesn`t mean it`s mainstream.

 

[J.]

Meshuggah were at Ozzfest you know. And they were played on MTV's 'The Osbournes'.

 

[Harp Heaven]

Meshuggah were at Ozzfest you know. And they were played on MTV's 'The Osbournes'.

Yeah, I know Ozzies son likes Meshuggah. But still, mainstream??? Known does not equal mainstream. I don`t see the video for "New Millenium Cyanide Christ" on MTV, nor has anyone else. I don`t know what your stance on Ozzfest is. I`m not familiar with the festival nor with the bands that usually play there. Care to enlighten me?

Children of Bodom, Sonata Arctica and Stratovarius are bands I would classify as neo-mainstream bands. They don`t get much airtime on the radio or on music television, but they do get some and are promoted heavily. All three bands have a huge following with 14 year old boys(so I have noticed)and get their singles into the top 40 charts. Meshuggah does not...

So what if it's not on MTV? MTV doesn't play music at all.

Yes, they do. Just music you don`t like(and that I don`t like either for that matter).

"Mainstream" and "popular" aren't synonymous. There are lots of mainstream bands who aren't raking in the cash, but they do embrace mainstream values and ideals (as do the bands on that list).

How does Meshuggah embrace mainstream values and ideas?

 

[J.]

MTV plays virtually no music. They have what, 30 minutes of music programming a day? That's hardly significant.

Messhuggah certainly embrace the mainstream obsessions with novelty and angst...

I think they have one hour of actual music called TRL. If Carson Daly says it's cool, it must be so.

 

[Sóti]

athiest is a popular band, how come you say they aren't mainstreamers

 

[J.]

Atheist wasn't popular when they were an active band. Like Cynic, Atheist receive more posthumous attention than they ever did when they were releasing albums.

 

[Harp Heaven]

Messhuggah certainly embrace the mainstream obsessions with novelty and angst...

Bullshit. I doubt you have even read Meshuggahs lyrics. Chaosphere is about a man who waives his humanity for machine parts. I won`t go into analysis mode, but I`ll post the IMO excellent lyrics to New Millenium Cyanide Christ. How you even dare consider this angsty lyrics is beyond me. Go to darklyrics.com and see the rest for yourself.

2. New Millenium Cyanide Christ

[Music:Fredrik Thordendal, M¥rten Hagstræm; Lyric:Tomas Haake]

I'M A CARNAL, ORGANIC ANAGRAM. HUMAN FLESH INSTEAD OF WRITTEN LETTERS.
I REARRANGE MY PATHETIC TISSUE. I INCISE. I REPLACE. I'M REFORMED.
I ERADICATE THE FAKE PRE-PRESENT ME. ELEVATE ME TO A HIGHER HUMAN FORM.
THE CHARACTERS I AM, MADE INTO A WORD COMPLETE, THEN I'LL BE THE NEW NORM.

SELF INFLICTED FRACTURES. I REPLACE MY BONES WITH BARS;
ALUMINUM BLEEDING OXIDE; THE DRUG OF GODS INTO MY POUNDING VEINS

(A HUMAN PUZZLE FOR ALL TO SCORN. NO FACE. NO BACK. DIRECTIONLESS.
MY SCARRED EDITION I'LL DISPLAY; THE ORGANIC WORD FOR NOTHINGNESS)

MY RECEIVING EYES EXCHANGED WITH FUSES; BLINDNESS INDUCED TO PREVENT DESTRUCTION.
CERAMIC BLADES IMPLANTED PAST MY RIBS TO SAVE ME FROM THE DUES OF INHALATION.
I TEAR MY WORLDLY USELESS SKIN. STAPLES TO PIN IT OVER MY EARS.
NON-RECEPTIVE OF UNGODLY SOUNDS - I DISABLE THE AUDIO-GENERATORS OF FEAR.

HEXAGONAL BOLTS TO FILL MY MOUTH, SHARPENED TO DEPLETE THE CREATOR OF ALL VIOLENCE;
WITHOUT SPEECH THERE WILL BE NO DECEIT

(MY FEET I CRUSH. THE FLESH I CUT AWAY, SO AS TO NOT PRODUCE THE SOUND OF THEIR PRESENCE ON ROTTEN GROUND)

BAPTIZED IN VITRIOLIC ACID. A FINAL TOUCH. A SMOOTHING OF FEATURES.
COMPLETION OF THE GREATEST ART; TO CAST THE GODLY CREATURES.
HUMANS, ONCE ASTRAY; MADE DIVINE. STRIPPED OF CONGENITAL FLAWS.
WE'RE INCANDESCENT REVELATIONS IN A WORLD OF DARKENED FORMS.

(CONFIDE IN MY NEW AGE DOGMA. SWALLOW THE INDOCTRINATION. YOU'LL COME TO LOVE IT HERE,
THE SUICIDAL ATMOSPHERE. LET ME INTO YOUR COMMON MIND. I'LL PLANT MY THOUGHTS INTO ITS SOIL.
WALK AMONG US SELF-MADE GODS, DEIFIED THROUGH THE PAINS OF SELF TORTURE)

DISCIPLES, COME JOIN WITH ME TO SAVE A FAILED HUMANITY. FOLLOW THE GOD OF CYANIDE INTO THE NEW ETERNITY.
BEHOLD; A SACRIFICIAL RASE A CLEANSING WORSHIPPING OF PAIN.
THE NEW MILLENIUM CHRIST HERE TO REDEEM ALL FROM LIES

(I'VE COME TO SAVE YOU ALL. I'VE COME TO LIGHT YOUR WAY)

 

[Harp Heaven]

Wow, that sure was a quick reply. Since you won`t explain why you think that is an angsty lyric, I will post the definition of angst for you.

angst
A feeling of anxiety or apprehension often accompanied by depression.anx·i·e·ty
n. pl. anx·i·e·ties

1. 1. <LI type=a>A state of uneasiness and apprehension, as about future uncertainties. <LI type=a>A cause of anxiety: For some people, air travel is a real anxiety.
   <li>Psychiatry. A state of apprehension, uncertainty, and fear resulting from the anticipation of a realistic or fantasized threatening event or situation, often impairing physical and psychological functioning. </li><LI>Eager, often agitated desire: my anxiety to make a good impression.

Straight from dictionary.com. Since New Millenium Cyanide Christ is not about a real or imagined fear from the narrators point of view, there is no reason to call it an angsty lyric, unless your name is Dying Sun. You are full of hot air, pal.

 

[ggggggu]

*Yawn* This is the same logic that Britney Spears fans use. Popularity and quality have nothing to do with each other. Indeed, good music is almost always LESS popular than bad music, given the greater stupidity of the human race.

BULLSHIT! Truth is always attained by vote! Thas't a fucking fact, boy! YO!

 

[Ol' Dirty Bastard]

I bet you've never even heard the band, and if you have, you're probably judging the band based on one song or simply one listen to an album.

I've seen them live a number of times (can't remember when though, they really didn't leave an impression, it must have been a few Metalfests and they always open up on these crappy death metal shows that my friends used to drag me to). Anyway, they were unmemorable and generic. There's more to music than being "brutal" and playing fast, like maybe learning how to string a song together.

 

[ggggggu]

Uh huh, sure, and if a popular vote decrees that an elephant is a chair, will that make it so?

I don't know because it doesn't.[/posting shit for the sake of posting shit]

 

[Harp Heaven]

The common usage of "angst" in reference to lyrical content refers to the sort of negative self-absorption typical of teen oriented "aggro" music. That sort of neurotic introspection and narcisisstic negativity is in full display above. These lyrics wouldn't be out of place on a Tool record...

According to your logic, any negative lyric written in first-person is an angsty mainstream lyric. Why do I say this? Because New Millenium Cyanide Christ is written from the POW of a fictional character. The character isn`t an avatar representing Tomas Haakes beliefs or fears, he is a product of the materialistic world Haake fears the world will become. This type of dystopian thinking has been seen in tons of lyrics, from Yes`s "Machine Messiah", to Queensryches "Operation: Mindcrime"(the entire album) to Zero Hours "The Towers of Avarice"(ditto). All angsty bands conforming to the mainstream angsty devilry(especially Yes, back in 1979). To show how fallacious your argument is, I will post some lyrics by two of the Teen aggro bands you mentioned, namely Slipknot and Staind.

Surfacing by Slipknot

Running out of ways to run
I can't see, I can't be
Over and over and under my skin
All this attention is doing me in!

Fuck it all! Fuck this world!
Fuck everything that you stand for!
Don't belong! Don't exist!
Don't give a shit!
Don't ever judge me!

Picking through the parts exposed
Taking shape, taking shag
Over and over and under my skin
All this momentum is doing me in!

Fuck it all! Fuck this world!
Fuck everything that you stand for!
Don't belong! Don't exist!
Don't give a shit!
Don't ever judge me!

You got all my love, livin' in your own hate
Drippin' hole man, hard step, no fate
Show you nuthin', but I ain't holdin' back
Every damn word I say is a sneak attack
When I get my hands on you
Ain't a fuck thing you can do
Get this cuz you're never gonna get me
I am the very disease you pretend to be

I am the push that makes you move

(How does this compare to NMCC? This is indeed an angsty, paranoid song lyric...And it is nothing like NMCC, other than that it is written in first person perspective)

"Suffocate"

I feel nothing
Longing for something
Lie in bed to take your clothes off
Show me what you're made of
Drugs to soothe me

(All alone)
Leave me here I'm dying
(All alone)
Just kicked me in my face
(All alone)
All alone and crying
(All alone)
I suffocate

I'm not gifted
Slightly twisted
Try hard try hard
To see if I can push you any further
Drugs to soothe me

(All alone)
Leave me here I'm dying
(All alone)
Just kicked me in my face
(All alone)
All alone and crying
(All alone)
I suffocate

Please believe you'll save me, rearrange me
I can feel your feelings running through me
Take away my sorrow my tomorrow
Heal me

(All alone)
Leave me here I'm dying
(All alone)
Just kicked me in my face
(All alone)
All alone and crying
(All alone)
I suffocate

I'm suffocating
SUFFOCATE (come suffocate)
(Same as above. The only similarity here is that it is written in first person)

 

[Harp Heaven]

So let me get this straight, because Meshuggah is moderately more literate than the sub-simians in Staind and Slipknot, their angst somehow becomes non-mainstream? Not to mention that "dystopian thinking" is a classic mainstream lyrical device. It has lain at the heart of mainstream rock "protest" at least since the early 60's. It's a symptom of the "fatality of optimism" embraced by the mainstream; no matter how much things suck, the belief is that they can be improved if only they are exposed (contrast this to the nihilistic views typical on non-mainstream metal and punk).

Bullshit. The embracing of lyrical clichees and popular concepts does not mean that a band is mainstream. Following this line of thinking, we are forced to conclude that any band writing about death, love or hatred(which would mean 90% of the bands out there)in ANY form, no matter how eloquent is a mainstream band. Cannibal Corpse is a mainstream band(they write about death, DUH), Cryptopsy is a mainstream band, Mortician is a mainstream band, Fimbulvinter is a mainstream band, Gorgoroth is a mainstream band. The list goes on and on and on...

Oh, and nihilism is now a non-mainstream lyrical device? Give me a break, it is prevalent in hugely popular gangsta rap.

And face it. MESHUGGAH IS NOT ANGST!!! I have posted the definition of anxiety to you and it does not fit on the lyric I just posted, neither does it fit on the majority of Meshuggahs lyrics. By the way, you might like to check out the dictionary.com definition of mainstream.

The prevailing current of thought, influence, or activity: “You need not accept the nominee's ideology, only be able to locate it in the American mainstream” (Charles Krauthammer)

I don`t see dystopian predictions being the current of thought in music today. Do you?

 

[OrestesMantra]

Harp Heaven: 1
Dying Sun: 0





Woah, looks like we have a winner.

 

[J.]

Harp Heaven: 1
Dying Sun: 0





Woah, looks like we have a winner.

 

[OrestesMantra]

The Chasm: Conqueror Of The Mourningstar

"I look far away, the candles of my burning desire
The sun seems so dismal, our mighty sky is in dismay...

Make my words be like pictures, for the dreams I have fall
My hate is shining bright to create the mourningstar[Woah, I see the word hate.The writer sounds full of angst.Everyone knows that angst is a emotion that only bands on the radio sing about so it must be pretty mainstream and we all know that if a band gets any type of publicity and has fans that dont worship satan,they suck.]

So rise...

Can the moon read my mind? so hopeless here I stand
There's hate in my veins, the stair is unseen
There's bitterness in my pain, my harmony is rotting[Man, thats pretty angry.I was once listening to Slipknot and they sounded angry also.Woah!That means that The Chasm and Slipknot....play the SAME type of music!!!]

Save me your essence, embrace me, fly with me
The tower we've build, the life that is ours...
The tower we've build, the life that is ours

I look far away, the candles of my burning desire
The sun seems so dismal, our mighty is in dismay

Let's drown in solitude and reborn in tragedies[The writer seems to like wallowing in his own pity.He also sounds sad. I was watching an Avril video and she seemed pretty sad and sorrowfull about something. That means that The Chasm = Avril. Haha!The Chasm must suck!Tuh!]
For the dreams we have done, we are the mourningstar..."



Damn.That was easy.I could take the lyrics from any of your "elite" and "non-mainstream" bands, use bullshit compare and contrast methods, and arive at the conclusion that they suck simply because of a slight similarity to a "mainstream" band.

 

[OrestesMantra]

 

[J.]

Well that pic certainly fits your post, seeing how you picked a winner.

 

[OrestesMantra]

Well that pic certainly fits your post, seeing how you picked a winner.

 

[J.]

good one, n00b.