Incredible clipage, yet still quiet. Why?

Tommy Evans

Tommy Evans

Member
Jul 19, 2011
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Colorado Springs, Colorado
Why does my DAW show clipping when the track is still quieter than commercial releases? Upon export, I'll get an alert pop up that says "your track is clipping by 2dbs (or whatever it may be)" but even if I leave it that way there's no audio clipping and it's still not as loud as id like it to be.

And I'm not in "the loudness war" or anything I'd just like my clients to not have to turn up the stereos/iPods when they're songs come on, then back down when other pro releases come on.

I use Studio One 2 if that helps any..
 
A bad line? one of my monitors had a bad cable going into my PC which caused the input level to remain unchanged but the output to be severely dimmed, causing me to turn it up way high, skyrocketing my input signal to all hell.
 
Don't think so,

I've used three sets of minitors with the same DAW set up. It's consistent. I wondered if it has something to do with gainstaging or the way I process the tracks within the song but can't think of anything legit
 
i wish i was on the level of audio production at which i can use Minotaurs to mix audio :p but even the commercial level releases clip once in mp3 format. are you exporting to wav or mp3?

does it sound bad? post a clip
 
I have to ask the obvious - you are putting a clipper or a limiter or something on the master bus right? You're not just exporting it without any 'loudnessing' and expecting it to be as loud as commercial things?

If the problem is your 'loudnessing' is not getting you all the way there, then you need to revisit the mix, maybe sort out the lowend a bit, or whatever is causing the clipping. Post a clip, otherwise its hard to give specific advice.
 
Clipping and loudness are not the same thing!!! You need compression to get overall loudness. If you're not loud enough then use more compression. There are times when I have 3 different compressors in my master bus. After that there's a limiter. Personally I can go louder than some of those "loudness war" mixes. My usual chain is:

Fabfilter Pro-Q: mid-side EQ trick to add depth + low and high pass filters
Waves C6: Most of the time I don't use this but when I do I use presets. Pooch mix bus is cool. (Pooch mixes Linkin Park)
API-2500 compressor: you get some punch and compression at the same time with this and it sounds clean
Ozone 5 loudness maximizer: the third mode and no tweaking really since it works. About 3dB gain reduction on this though.

If it's not loud enough I might throw another compressor before or after the API-2500. Maybe the Softube comp since it's super clean.

EDIT: And if you really want some extreme loudness without clipping use the free GClip plugin.
 
RMS reads between -7db and -6db. The peaks are brickwalled at 0db for the most part. Starting to think the readings are inaccurate for some reason...

I'll have to A/B my stuff with commercial stuff to see how far off things are in the RMS department.
 
First of all, -7/-6dB is absolutely insane and I see no reason to go over there. Second, it doesn't sound as loud as other commercial releases due to the balance of the mix, if your mix is -3dB quieter around 3khz till 4khz for example, then if will "appear" to us as really lower in volume since that is the area that our ears are more sensitive, so the high mid presence is something to note, but it's a dangerous game as well since things can get harsh and abrasive very quickly
 
yea it sounds plenty loud to me. just not quite balanced. and like clark said most people use some gain reduction on the mastering limiter instead of keeping it 0db. so go back to your mix and try to smooth it out. it sounds like its got to much high end and not enough mids in the guitars and since they are the loudest thats where you should probably start.
 
I notice on this forum from time to time that people quote unusual RMS figures from their masters. U say your master is round -7 to -6 db but it is no way near this. It is sitting round -9 to -9.5 db.
This is a reasonable level and is similar to most pro masters as most range from -9 to -8. Anything over -8db sounds pretty bad to my ears and it is almost impossible to avoid clipping at this level.

Compression is the key for your master as mentioned before. Rather than just taming peaks down with a limiter/clipper you need some more upwards style comression to raise the quiter parts of the mix. This is obvious if you look at the .wav form in any editor compared to a commercial master.
Waves SSL comp is great for this or the comp in FXG.

PM me a link to your unmastered track and I will have a go at it for you.
 
Firaxis, no I haven't put a limiter on a master bus, I figured that's what I'd use the gclip for haha but since I put the knee at 50% i'll bet there's some peaks getting through.

Pedro, yeah an RMS of -6db is just stupid insane I agree. But I was starting to think that since my stuff still wasn't as loud as others that maybe my DAW was putting out incorrect readings. And that maybe my -6db was like -9db or -8db in real life and my DAW was just sugar coating that shit on me.

Infectdsniper, yeah the guitars are scratchier than a motherfucker. Probably has something to do with something.

Pikachu69, thanks for the offer I'll PM you the unmastered mix hopefully tonight or tomorrow and see how it compares to mine. You're not gonna charge me are you?! XP

Thanks everyone for all the helpful tips it's much appreciated!
 
Slightly on/off topic, but I've noticed that my "mastered" mixes in REAPER are always quieter inside the DAW compared to when I open them in a music player. Wtf?!
 
Prehaps Reaper keeps the output a few dB lower, to prevent real cliping, when light "cliping" (exceeding 0dB inside DAW) appears. Seems logical explanation to me...
 
Tommy Evans said:
Pikachu69, thanks for the offer I'll PM you the unmastered mix hopefully tonight or tomorrow and see how it compares to mine. You're not gonna charge me are you?! XP
Click to expand...


Of course not! unless you like it lol. JK. Send away and I will see wht I can do for ya m8, no drama.
I have realised the benifits of having someone else master my work lately, even though I am commfortable with mastering myself so it is worth a try.
 
There's a difference between your RMS level and the perceived loudness. I use T-Racks metering which will show you both the perceived level and the RMS level. Basically what I find happens to my own mixes/masters is when there's a shit ton of low end that's out of control, that's what is pushing the RMS level up so high, but the perceived loudness is considerably lower, and why it sounds quieter, i.e. the track is -6dB RMS, but most of that value is coming from the level of the low end, and the frequencies we hear best are in the 1-3khz range. So I could have something like -6dB RMS and -14dB in perceived loudness. To fix this, all I do is use a multiband compressor somewhere before the final limiter, and just really push down on the low end and low mids, until the RMS and perceived loudness are about the same. Then I just push the limiter a little harder and it can get up to -6dB RMS and sound like it

And as for digital overs, just make sure you have a limiter or something at the end of the chain at -0.2dB to avoid anything getting through. Your track won't make it over 0db FS, but just watch out that you don't get any audible distortion, because it can still clip before reaching that limiter
 
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