Metal Evolution

[sh0kr0k]

Are these available online yet? I'd be interested in them.. especially this shock rock one

 

[General Zod]

I remember more kids at my high school sported Overkill shirt than Metallica shirts.

Me too... but I lived in Jersey.

 

[Cheiron]

Me too... but I lived in Jersey.

Metallica, Def Leppard, Motley Crue, and Skid Row. Occassionally Iron Maiden and maybe Slayer and Sepultura.

Overkill? Never saw a shirt with them.

 

[Fizrider]

Metallica, Def Leppard, Motley Crue, and Skid Row. Occassionally Iron Maiden and maybe Slayer and Sepultura.

Overkill? Never saw a shirt with them.

Heh - I got sent home from school for wearing a Crue t-shirt once. Of course, I went to an Episcopal private school, so "Shout at the Devil" may have been asking for it...

 

[mitchgx]

Apple is brilliant. As good a disc as there's ever been. That said, Ten is also a brilliant disc. I guess it depends on whether you see Pearl Jam's post-Ten efforts as actually being a detriment. OK... now that I think about it, you're right. MLB > PJ.

Apples and oranges (no pun intended). For me, Ten is one of the greatest rock albums of all time...and I don't think we can talk about all of this without also mentioning Temple of the Dog which still astonishes me with how great it is every time I listen to it.

But yeah, Andrew Wood was a huge loss. I've got a short MLB documentary on VHS (and now that I think about it, I probably haven't watched it in 15 years) that just leaves you shaking your head at the end of it, thinking about what a *huge* star Andrew Wood could have been. Honestly, I think he was born 20 years too late. He really was something special.

 

[Anomander Rake]

Grudge? Nu Metal? waste of air time in a story of Metal Evolution (liked some grudge though). But he included some decent time with King Diamond so all is forgiven.

 

[Jasonic]

Even though I do like some grunge, it does not have a spot in the evolution of metal as a music genre, which is what I found to be disturbing about it.

Sure, mass media BS outlets like SPIN and ROLLING STONE had headlines that GRUNGE KILLED METAL.......

Anyhow, I agree with all of the above, in that being on VH1 Classic and limited to 45 minutes, its the best you are going to get.

I just wished it was done by someone who overall is more knowledgable than Sam Dunn is. Some of the things he has said or questioned on the show are indicative that he got into metal in the 90s. Not to say that you "had to be there" in order to effectively present on the topic...

Though someone with 10 years or more experience would not have even considered mentioning grunge, since it is truly not a part of the evolution of "heavy metal".

 

[Pelata]

Though someone with 10 years or more experience would not have even considered mentioning grunge, since it is truly not a part of the evolution of "heavy metal".

I don't agree with this. It's clear that what started with Black Sabbath evolved into what Soundgarden, King's X and Alice In Chains were doing...

 

[Jasonic]

I don't agree with this. It's clear that what started with Black Sabbath evolved into what Soundgarden, King's X and Alice In Chains were doing...

Re-read what you wrote...............

Well, I guess we would first have to agree as to whether Soundgarden and AIC are heavy metal bands.......

Being influential on another genre is different than that genre being a part of the evolution of "heavy metal"

Yeah, it can certainly be argued one way or another. This is just my opinion.

There is just as much heaviness in early Smashing Pumpkins in terms of Sabbath-like riffs, as there are in early Soundgarden. Would you consider the Pumpkins though to be part of metal's evolution.

To me, the evolution of metal is NOT about what metal influenced (IE - grunge, etc), but about what was influential TO heavy metal (IE - Zep, Purple, punk, hardcore, etc).

 

[Pelata]

Re-read what you wrote...............

Well, I guess we would first have to agree as to whether Soundgarden and AIC are heavy metal bands.......

Being influential on another genre is different than that genre being a part of the evolution of "heavy metal"

Yeah, it can certainly be argued one way or another. This is just my opinion.

There is just as much heaviness in early Smashing Pumpkins in terms of Sabbath-like riffs, as there are in early Soundgarden. Would you consider the Pumpkins though to be part of metal's evolution.

To me, the evolution of metal is NOT about what metal influenced (IE - grunge, etc), but about what was influential TO heavy metal (IE - Zep, Purple, punk, hardcore, etc).

Ultimately, like you said, it can be argued either way depending on one's own perspective. But if Metal as a whole can include bands like Poison & Bon Jovi, even if on the outer fringes, then it can certainly include Smashing Pumpkins.

 

[TheLongshot]

Funnythat we talk so much about Pearl Jam in a thread that is supposed to be about the history of metal.

Well I hate puppies.

Look I like the album but I don't think it is by far a brilliant album, but may for the time and that generation I guess that could be argued, I know what the material is about and well not the first song about someone killing themselves there. 'Black' great song but with the right guitar solo and a can of Aguanet it would be any second rate Warrants' song.


Do I think the marketing helped with the appeal to you gus; well can't really say I'm sure with Matt and knowing his background I would say no. But if that marketing was not there and that word "alternative" did not become chic then no one would have ever heard that "brilliant" album or even gave a damn if it was brought to their attention.

For me, "Ten" is still great after all of these years. If it was just marketing, I would have tired of it long ago.

I can go with that.

What 'Ten' came out I was about 16 I guess and that and Nivana was all the rage of my peers. I guess I look for something with what I thought had more meaning than whatever was speaking to an apathetic generation that had no identity. For god's sake they deified a druggy for killing himself because rock stardom was to much for him. Seriously? I can understand Lennon a hero but this. Still I just saw it all as that meaningless and has a teen I just needed more. Luckily there was hardcore so I could be pissed with a bunch of other guys for no apparent reason.

Warrior Soul could have never worked anyway and I know that. It was the wrong time for them and were every young people were then Warrior Soul just would not have worked.

For me, Cobain's death got rid of an overrated, annoying band and replaced it with a much better one. While I'm sorry for his wife and child's loss, things got much better musically once he was gone.

This is the 2nd disc that MotherLoveBone would have released had they (Mr Wood) stayed alive, so of course it is brilliant. And for those who don't believe that statement, just look at how quickly the quality drops off in later releases. Vedder destroyed the remains of Love Bone with his pretentious bullshit (sorry Glenn, just rabble rousing here lol).




Grunge to me were Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Mudhoney, Nirvana etc...which at the time were ok in my book, but 20 years later the only disc which has made it to my iPod is Pearl Jam. All the others can take a sweet suck, for all I care!

Explains why I don't really like any Pearl Jam after "Ten". While I had heard of Mother Love Bone back in the day, they didn't register much with me. Maybe I should change that at some point.

 

[TheLongshot]

To me, the evolution of metal is NOT about what metal influenced (IE - grunge, etc), but about what was influential TO heavy metal (IE - Zep, Purple, punk, hardcore, etc).

but, maybe if you move from there into Numetal, you get a connection possibly.

Personally, I don't know if Soundgarden and AIC influenced Numetal, but logically you'd think it would.

 

[Jasonic]

but, maybe if you move from there into Numetal, you get a connection possibly.

Personally, I don't know if Soundgarden and AIC influenced Numetal, but logically you'd think it would.

As I said, I totally see what people are saying.
To connect the dots though, some ultimate decision would have to be made as to what is a metal band or not....

From there then, it turns into what was an influence ON metal, as opposed to what was influenced BY metal.....

Sadly, if we have grunge, we would have to ultimately then have a screamo episode...........

 

[mloanna]

It will be interesting to see the Power Metal episode this weekend. Does anyone know what comes next?

 

[J. Golden]

I have now seen the shock rock episode twice and as with the others I think there could have been more to it. Sure I realize there is only but so much time but seriously Gwar might as well not even have been mentioned.
So theatrical or actually shocking; it was cool to see Mr. Brown in there but was it so much “shocking” as merely theatrical as others were doing like Peter Gabriel as a large tumor on stage. And it would have been great if there was footage of Brown’s band in their mailbox and stop sign costumes.
Sure Alice and KISS have to be mentioned but again it was more theatre than shocking.-but I guess for the time.
Moving into the 80s all he can grab onto is Venom, really? So Satan was shocking? Um, Coven brought that element in long before and at that time it was shocking and different. Venom wasn’t any different from anything else going out they just exploited Satan a little more. If Slayer did not have Hitler they would have went even more cheesy Satan.
The lack of Gwar takes away any creditability from this this, they should have had the most focus next to Alice. I remember about the fourth time I saw Gwar live they brought out a doll of JonBenét Ramsey and raped and killed it on stage. Personally I thought that was a little too far and I don’t get offended or “shocked” easily. The band had gone way into the depths of distaste. But that is what they do and that is shocking.
What about idiots like G.G. Allen or The Mentors Sam? Not a fan myself and thing what they did was pretty stupid, though not as stupid as the chicks in the front row who would suck feces off of G.G’s penis but still a bit shocking. Or maybe Rock Bitch who the women in the band fist other women on stage, kind of make Geniturtores look tame by comparison.
I know that no one reading this post wants to hear about fisting and feces and a lot of you may not even be familiar with these “artist” but hey it is about “shock”.
The Manson thing I can agree with; they/he was more than just theatre and it was disturbing if you really delved into Manson. And as for the school shooting and him stepping up and taking more credit and being that villan living up to hiss name well I really don’t know what to think there. I can only image that was a hard call for him. If he had said “see my influence” then he would have become the ultimate villain and no longer would there been a statement to his craft he would have then just became a badguy.
Oh, Gorgoroth Sam? Um remember what went done in Poland?
The interview with the singer of Slipknot seemed like an interview from deathrow with a child killer. I know that fits with there whole thing but it seemed to real. It was if you can tell that guy had nothing better to do before the band than to kill children a bury them in the field because it made the corn grow better. Still that guy strikes me has having some serious issues, the grandson son of the couple in the ‘American Gothic’ painting. Oppose to Bryan (Manson) who is quite insightful.
All in all it was just cool seeing ol’ Arthur.

 

[J. Golden]

For me, "Ten" is still great after all of these years. If it was just marketing, I would have tired of it long ago.

For me, Cobain's death got rid of an overrated, annoying band and replaced it with a much better one. While I'm sorry for his wife and child's loss, things got much better musically once he was gone.


Explains why I don't really like any Pearl Jam after "Ten". While I had heard of Mother Love Bone back in the day, they didn't register much with me. Maybe I should change that at some point.

I do like the album, and don't think is was strictly the marketing.
And I do think a better band came from the ashes of Nirvana.

 

[dgn4369]

It will be interesting to see the Power Metal episode this weekend. Does anyone know what comes next?

Progressive Metal is next and is the last episode.

 

[jhallum]

Is there a pdf of the chart that he uses anywhere on the net somewhere? It looks interesting.

 

[miel]

Is there a pdf of the chart that he uses anywhere on the net somewhere? It looks interesting.

~Jen

 

[Diamond45]

Never knew this show existed until today... recorded the Power Metal episode and was pleasantly surpirsed....

Wow... a show that actually was entertaining AND educational - and for the most part they got it right!

Looking forward to seeing the progressive metal episode next week. (DVR set up to record all the old episodes too)