PP USA X: Major roster changes

[Claus / Intromental]

First of all - the situation sucks for all involved, but I'm extremely proud of Glenn's way of handling it. He did a great job. During the last week I've been on the phone and email with Glenn a billion times while all this happened, and I felt his frustration with it all. However, Glenn made some hard/heavy (no pun intended) choices and turned this into the best possible outcome he could with the cards he was dealt. Good job Glenn.

As the manager of Tomorrow's Eve I'm of course extremely sad that the band won't be performing at PPUSA this year. We handed in all the correct paperwork in time, but apparently that wasn't enough to satisfy the people at immigrations. Better luck next time

The process with immigrations is very involved and not exactly something to take lightly. I know this first hand as I came here to USA one-and-a-half year ago on an "alien-fiancee" visa and got married. I didn't receive my green card until 4 months ago. It takes time, and it's very difficult. For Glenn's festival the process has to be "fast" simply due to the fact that there's only so much time given from he books a band till they have to be approved. It's not easy, but Glenn has done all in his power to make it work for the bands - some you win, some you loose I guess.

Knowing from my own festival (PP Scandinavia) and ton of shows/tours around the world, there are a lot of factors that can change the outcome in a flash. In this business we have to deal with ups and downs. I completely understand Glenn's frustration, and when he said that this makes him question if he should continue after 2010, I truly understand him. This music booking business is more often than not a hassle. If it wasn't for the love of music, there's no way Glenn (nor I) would be involved with it. It certainly isn't for the money.

One last thing I feel I need to address is the way you all reacted to "Shark83"'s post ... I honestly don't think you guys were fair to him at all. He paid money to go see a show (in this case Vanden Plas) only to find them cancelled. Of course he is upset - who wouldn't be? If that makes him choose not to go to the festival anymore in the future, then that's his choice, and given the circumstances it might be the right choice for him (seeing as he was only going for ONE band). Glenn addressed his post, thanked him for voicing his opinion and told him that he hoped this would be enough and that he wouldn't have to post again on the subject, yet here we see a lot of you jumping in a kicking the guy down (calling him names as "peckerhead" or "junior member" is really low). I'm embarrassed on your all's behalf. Let Glenn / Shane deal with it. It's their festival and they are just as sad about VP not performing as this guy - no need for all of us to rush to the defense of Glenn / Shane when it's not our battle, and certainly not slam the guy and call him names.

At this point in time we should just be happy that the festival continues - Glenn and Shane found a way to salvage what could be salvaged, and the festival is back on track.

Okay, I've said my peace. Keep supporting the festival - it's by far the best thing we've got here in USA of it's kind, and it's the most unique (for the atmosphere and friendships/camaraderie) festival in the entire world.

c.

 

[AngraRULES]

I will leave after this post.

I realize that there is a timeline involved, but the fault came with the posting of the showcase tickets, not when promotion began. Promotion began long before the tickets went on sale, which I am fine with. Get the word out. However, it was stated on this forum (in an official thread, mind you) that the sale of the showcase tickets was specifically postponed to avoid a situation exactly like this one.

They wanted to make sure there weren't any visa problems before any tickets were sold. The tickets were put up a week or two later, which sent a message that there was no longer anything to worry about. Obviously they should have been postponed a little longer. This is why I feel cheated. Vanden Plas and others still wouldn't be coming, but it would have saved some people a lot of money, in my case $550. So yeah... I'm angry.

I realize that government factors are out of your hands, Glenn. A lot of this is out of your hands. Some of you think I don't know this, but my complaints don't deal with that aspect. Many of you are bashing me and calling me names when my complaint is legitimate.

Look dude, I'll just say this to you, and then afterwards, you may leave.

You think you're upset? Well, let me give you some news. There are hundreds of people upset because of this. I'm upset. I'm fucking angry. I won't get to see my favorite artist ever this year because of the ridiculous way the US Immig. department handled it. And I'm not talking about Vanden Plas, because to me, they're just another melodic prog metal band.

Yet I'm not being a little bitch about it. I have my gold badge paid for, my flight is booked. Does it suck that the main draw of the fest for me is out? Absolutely! Am I going to be a little girl and say "I'm not coming?" Fuck no. I still have THE BEST metal concert experience in the country to attend. I still have all of my friends who I get to see only once a year and make the trip absolutely worth it for me. More than ANY BAND IN THE WORLD. I will still be coming even if Freedom Call gets booked as a headliner.

That being said, let me give you a suggestion. You don't seem to be a regular here on the forum. In fact, you're probably not a regular at ProgPower either, based on your posts. You just seem to be a Vanden Plas fanboy. Next time, try finding out what ProgPower is really about. If you have no friends to look forward to see at the fest, or if you don't think the friends you potentially have (I doubt it, based on your pissy attitude) are worth the trip, then do us all a favor, and don't ever return.

And by the way, learn from the experience. Don't go around paying large amounts of money to see only ONE band at a festival. Have some common sense. Shit happens. Bands cancel concerts, it's kind of a given. It's a risk you're taking.

Now you're free to leave. Rich made his point earlier. I don't think we'll miss you.

 

[TheLongshot]

I realize that there is a timeline involved, but the fault came with the posting of the showcase tickets, not when promotion began. Promotion began long before the tickets went on sale, which I am fine with. Get the word out. However, it was stated on this forum (in an official thread, mind you) that the sale of the showcase tickets was specifically postponed to avoid a situation exactly like this one.

Actually, that wasn't true. It sounded like he wanted to marry his announcement with something else. I don't know what that something else was, since it didn't seem to happen. It didn't have anything to do with potential visa issues.

I do feel for you. I'm not exactly thrilled about the changes either. But, I almost never come to this thing for one band. As you say, for those of us who aren't that close to Atlanta, going to this thing isn't cheap. One band isn't enough to convince me to come. For example, I skipped out of PP VIII, because the only band playing there that I was willing to travel for was After Forever. That wasn't enough for what I needed to pay to get down there. (Unfortunately, the fact that the local date conflicted with me being being out of town and the breakup afterwards makes me think that wasn't a great choice in hindsight...)

I suggest you come anyways and enjoy the bands that are there. The nice thing about a festival like this is that you can always discover new bands.

 

[manowarfan1]

Hey Shark - I can understand you feeling pissed at having laid out money to see a band and then they canceled/ got canceled. Believe me - I went to England to see a band and they broke up before I got there - been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

I even understand your point about tickets being on sale before things are "confirmed" - but these things happen all the eime, even in the middle of big tours. I had front row for the reuinion of Sabbath with Ozzy out here in Colorado, they cancelled/rescheduled twice and then finally said the hell with Colorado (Ozzy & Altitude don't mix well). That wasnt even something beyond their control like Govt/visas.

I still think you'd have a blast at the Fest if you haven't been. I go every year regardless of who is playing (hell it was my only real vacation last year and will be again this year with the economy in it's current shambles). I always have a great time, reunite with people from previous fests, meet a few new cool people every year, get to chat with bands just hanging out in the hotels/parties/going out to eat etc. If you haven't been, you really ought to check it out, one you already laid out the money, so you may as well get SOMETHING out of it right? Even if it isnt the one band you wanted to see more than any other - there is a ton of talented bands that you don't get the chance to see otherwise, and odds are you will get floored by someone - may even find another band that you'd kill to see live

I'd be bummed if my ONE band was on a bill and then couldnt get in - but the thing with this Fest is - the Fest & the people MAKE the event. The bands provide the kick ass soundtrack. Give it a shot.

My 2 cents
jeff

 

[Wyvern]

Also: my vote for VP's replacement (like it matters anyways!): Dream Evil!

+ 666

Things happen with a festival like this. It is not the fault of the promoter. Even when my favorite band, Nevermore, did not play PPUSA VII I still went and enjoyed the festival.

The show must go on and will go on.

Totally agree. Only for me was the other way around, I wasn't at all thrilled by Nevermore but when Jorn stepped in I was :Smokin: . Anyhow being that my first PP I was totally thrilled by the experience, even if I didn't know most of the bands.

I don't care about VP so any band will do for me, I'm mad about Matos being off but again the CG show with Wade Black sounds mysterioulsy appealing, so...

Like you said the show must go on, some loose and some win with changes but the spirit must be kept alive.

I even understand your point about tickets being on sale before things are "confirmed" - but these things happen all the eime, even in the middle of big tours.

And that happens everywhere. When Dio came here a friend of mine was the promoter and I was deeply involved in the organization of the concert. Still a couple of hours before the show was a chance it was about to be cancelled since the banks fucked up and the money in advance never reach Dio's management on time. At the last minute was his call and he decided to be there for the fans (the money issue was eventually arranged).

If people watch "Flight 666" documentary will learn that Nicko hurt his arm playing golf here the morning before the concert, chances were at the time that the entire tour would have been cancelled. Imagine our luck Iron Maiden could have cancelled the tour while we were filling the stadium to enjoy the concert of a lifetime. Luckily Nicko went on and the tour was a huge success.

In a nutshell, Murphy's law exist for a reason

 

[Ascension]

One last thing I feel I need to address is the way you all reacted to "Shark83"'s post ... I honestly don't think you guys were fair to him at all. He paid money to go see a show (in this case Vanden Plas) only to find them cancelled. Of course he is upset - who wouldn't be? If that makes him choose not to go to the festival anymore in the future, then that's his choice, and given the circumstances it might be the right choice for him (seeing as he was only going for ONE band). Glenn addressed his post, thanked him for voicing his opinion and told him that he hoped this would be enough and that he wouldn't have to post again on the subject, yet here we see a lot of you jumping in a kicking the guy down (calling him names as "peckerhead" or "junior member" is really low). I'm embarrassed on your all's behalf. Let Glenn / Shane deal with it. It's their festival and they are just as sad about VP not performing as this guy - no need for all of us to rush to the defense of Glenn / Shane when it's not our battle, and certainly not slam the guy and call him names.

I agree. His reason for not going to the fest is just as legitimate as other's reasons for going. The name calling is sad to say the least. Nothing but juvenile. But, it seems this has been allowed on this forum lately where in the past it wasn't. Totally uncalled for & a potential alienating factor for new members joining here & considering going to PP. It's strange that some opinions will get censored but this is allowed. Priorities are definitely not straight. But hey...it's not my gig...l'm just a potential "gig-attendee".

 

[Still Remains]

Glenn,

Thanks so much for putting together this fantastic festival year after year and dealing with all the behind the scenes bs that we know so little about. Also, major kudos for bringing FATES WARNING out for their only US show in 2009. You should be knighted for that alone.

Shark83-I had front row tix for Zeppelin right before Bonham died-get a grip.

 

[Harvester]

It's strange that some opinions will get censored but this is allowed. Priorities are definitely not straight. But hey...it's not my gig...l'm just a potential "gig-attendee".

Or it could be that I just woke up a bit ago and first read this thread since my original post. It's not exactly the thing I like to do to start off my morning after these past few days.

I deleted the personal insults. However, I will absolutely leave those that are defending me and the situation. After all, the guy said I stole from him. I don't take kindly to being called a thief, but I let it go because I understand his frustration and anger. He lost $550. I lost a hell of a lot more than that.

I just have to shake my head at your logic & attitude sometimes. It's like a small part of your Raison d'être is just to give me shit. I can take the pros with the cons. I think that me keeping you around proves that point.

 

[BABS]

Shark83-I had front row tix for Zeppelin right before Bonham died-get a grip.

Now that would suck!

 

[TychoCelchu]

A couple of thoughts. Horrible situation, and to say Glenn and company are champs is a major understatement. He's got to be one of the best promoters in the world in terms of dedication to his project.
We need some hard rockers/metal fans to get jobs in the Visa office. If a guy can arbitrarily stamp an application denied just because he feels like it, then a metalfan could be able to stamp an application approved because he feels like it. If I had this job I'd do it! Some of us should maybe start looking into how we can get ourselves into this type of position.
A thing that might reduce headaches would be an all-US fest for one year. American metal's still alive and well and there are easily ten-twelve domestic bands who would fill out a roster. Or, just having fewer bands play one year wouldn't be bad. They could play longer sets or the fest could end a little earlier. Reducing quantity would not reduce quality, IMO.
I skipped a few pages of reading this thread so these thoughts might be redundant.

 

[Ascension]

Or it could be that I just woke up a bit ago and first read this thread since my original post. It's not exactly the thing I like to do to start off my morning after these past few days.

Not the 1st time insults have been hurled recently & allowed.

I deleted the personal insults.

As should be...thanks.

However, I will absolutely leave those that are defending me and the situation.

A court without it's entertainment is sure to get boring.

After all, the guy said I stole from him. I don't take kindly to being called a thief, but I let it go because I understand his frustration and anger. He lost $550. I lost a hell of a lot more than that.

Customer service comes to mind...something that seems to have been thrown out the window in today's society. l know it sucks sometimes to eat it, l've been a business owner too. But, apologies all around were in order indeed.

It's like a small part of your Raison d'être

I think rationale is an asset. Oh...you probably didn't mean it that way.

I think that me keeping you around proves that point.

Veiled...but that's ok.

 

[nailz]

Neither do I, that's why I skipped PPVIII and PPIX. But just because of this issue doesn't mean we can't show some support in the forum.

Ahh, I agree then. I would never have posted something like "WOW YOU HAVE SUCH A SHITTY LINEUP IM NOT COMING. HOW DARE YOU NOT APPEASE ME, AND I WILL NOT BE GIVING YOU MY MONEY!" or something. I love PP, and I'm glad it does well every year, but my thought is sometimes circumstances are just not right for some people to be able to go. I don't see Ryd being a jerk about it, just voicing his opinion.

Right now Glenn is hesitant about doing PPXI and with some posters overreacting, charging the place with negativism will not help Glenn, the rest of the fans or metal.

One of the probelms with the current setup and situation, even if it IS out of the hands of a promoter, is that when you advertise and sell tickets to a show featuring certain bands, and those bands can't (or don't) show up, you're going to have some angry people. This goes double for a festival that people spend hundreds of dollars on travel months before the show. It's not only disappointment, you're out a TON of money. When this happens twice in a row, sometimes an "I'm sorry, it was out of our hands." just isn't enough (and I'm not saying Glenn or Shane should have to do more, not at all. This really and truly is blameless and by finding replacment bands they're doing their part 10 fold.). You can offer a refund on a ticket, and in the case of a local show, this would appease most people, but how do you refund airfare travel? You can't. And that's going to cause anomosity, misplaced or not.

tl;dr: You have to expect some angry people when a schedual changes so drastically so late in the game even if there's nothing you can do about it.

One last thing I feel I need to address is the way you all reacted to "Shark83"'s post ... I honestly don't think you guys were fair to him at all... I'm embarrassed on your all's behalf.
c.

I'm glad someone else feels this way.

On a seperate note, Claus, is it this difficult to run PP Scandinavia, or other countries where you have to bring a band in from another place but still within Europe? I'd be interested in knowing if you face the same kind of novel paperwork that it takes to do it here.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

On a seperate note, Claus, is it this difficult to run PP Scandinavia, or other countries where you have to bring a band in from another place but still within Europe? I'd be interested in knowing if you face the same kind of novel paperwork that it takes to do it here.

No, the visa problems are really only an issue in USA, Canada and partly UK. most other places (especially in Europe) it's fairly easy and you don't even have to worry about visas at all.

We of course have a ton of other problems, (such as an overcrowded scene with concerts almost every day of the week competing with yours), but that's for another thread

c.

 

[eaeolian]

The rules may have been in place, but the standards for review are out the window.

Agreed. That's pathetic, but sadly not surprising.

 

[nailz]

No, the visa problems are really only an issue in USA, Canada and partly UK. most other places (especially in Europe) it's fairly easy and you don't even have to worry about visas at all.

That's good, and completely what I expected. Europe seems to have a lot of their shit together.

We of course have a ton of other problems, (such as an overcrowded scene with concerts almost every day of the week competing with yours), but that's for another thread

c.

Haha! Yah, shows over there never seem to be in short supply!

 

[Harvester]

Veiled...but that's ok.

Batman has to have the Joker in order to be Batman.

toodles.

G.

 

[Ascension]

Batman has to have the Joker in order to be Batman.

toodles.

G.

Why so serious?

 

[Harvester]

Why so serious?

 

[Magius]

Fortunately none of the bands I'm interested were affected by this announcement. Actually, Crimson Glory might be a tick upwards provided Wade Black can do their songs anything close to justice.
Nevertheless, I empathise with anyone affected by the changes, and even more with both Glenn and Shane.

In regards to Shark83 I have to agree with Clause. No doubt his post was rude and over the top, but he and anyone else can base attendence on any reason they see fit. However, this quote is incorrect:

Actually, that wasn't true. It sounded like he wanted to marry his announcement with something else. I don't know what that something else was, since it didn't seem to happen. It didn't have anything to do with potential visa issues.

In regards to the Vanden Plas VISA situation, myself and numerous others have looked into the legalities, and logistics of the entire situation. That being said we all feel VERY confident about the VISA'S, and there are no reasons to believe AT ALL that any problems will arise with the proper paperwork.

Just in case anyone still has reservations about this, we'll hold off until June 1st to place tickets on sale. This is just a precaution for the fans, and attendees. For your piece of mind so to speak, as everyone involved has no reason whatsoever to feel that this show will not take place.

Thank you guys for all of your patience with the announcement, and once again thanks to Glenn for the advice, and allowing us to continue the tradition of the Showcase.

See you in Hotlanta!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Shane

I don't point this out to justify his inapporopriate inferences, nor reflect any blame for government bureaucracy upon either Shane or Glenn. It is mearly a reference to his increased sense of frustration.

 

[arnavut]

Replacements are much better than originals, imo. All of a sudden lineup became incredible for me. Crimson Glory wit classics are you kidding me