Production/Tracking guitar on first couple Nevermore cds?

[SliderJeff]

Hi Neil,

First of all, thanks for providing this forum to talk to you. Nice to have a line to someone who has been around for awhile and done so much with artists I enjoy listening to.

Alright... now to get down to brass tacks. I have been listening to the first 3 Nevermore cd's alot lately, and would love to hear as much detail as you feel comfortable talking about with regards to the guitar sounds you got on each one of them. I am particularly partial to the Politics of Ecstacy tone... which I THINK was a Mesa Triaxis and 2:90 combination, but I'm not sure. I think Loomis switch to a Dual Rec for DNB... can't recall reading what he used on the S/T first cd. Anyway, as an owner of a Triaxis, I struggle to get tones anywhere reminiscent of what you have achieved in the studio with Nevermore. I'd love to hear how you approached everything from the settings on the preamp/power amp to any pre or post-processing you tend to favor as a rule or in general. I've tried the multitracking thing with two slightly different guitar tones for up to 4 tracks, but it still doesn't seem to have the oomph and crunch that I hear on your cds. For reference, here's the gear I am using:

Ibanez USRG30 Alder body with maple cap, Tone Zone and PAF Pro pickups
Triaxis version 2.0 with no fat mod on Ld1 red
Mesa 20/20 Power amp
Mesa Recto Vertical 2x12 Cab
SM57 - Used to close mic upper speaker of 2x12.... placed straight on, near left edge of cone
M-Audio Omnistudio with onboard mic pre's (not fantastic... but fairly good)

I record straight into Sonar from there. I mostly use 44.1khz, but may try some experiments at 48Khz, just for comparison's sake.

Anyway... if you (or anyone else with experience using a Triaxis for Nevermore-like tones) has any insight, I'd love to hear what you did/do.

Thanks a bunch... continued success in your efforts!

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[LynchpiN]

I'm also a fan of the guitar sound Neil got for those albums. Especially DNB - was it really a Dual Rec?
If so, I would really appreciate any considerations on the rig because I'll soon record a band wich uses Duals and are looking for some of DNB "ultra fatass crunchy wall of guitars" vibe.
Some info on tracking, miking and setting and I'll be your slave forever
See ya and thanks in advance.
And my apologies for being such a curious bastard!

 

[NK]

On the first album (which was two sets of demos sellotaped together in fact) we used Jeff's old solid state amp. I can't remember what it was though, I'm afraid. On POE we used Pat O'Brien's Boogie Mark IV, and on DNB we did in fact use a Triaxis /2-90 combination. I think we used cabinets with celestions in for all of them (on DNB it was one with vintage 30s).

As far as mics go, I expect I used either a Shure 57 or Sennheiser 421.

Hope this helps at least a bit..

Neil K.

 

[LynchpiN]

 

[SliderJeff]

Thanks a bunch, Neil. Do you happen to recall how many tracks of rhythm guitar you did on each? I know Loomis is super tight, so my guess is you could have done up to 4 on some of the tracks. Also, do you recall which mode(s) Jeff used on the Triaxis? I was listening in the truck again this morning on the drive in and my best guess would be the Lead 1 red mode, i.e. Recto mode. It didn't seem to have the sizzle that the Lead 2 red (Mark III) has... at least comparing it to what mine sounds like.

Thanks again! Very much appreciated!

Regs,
Jeff

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

Up to 4?

They could have done 6 haha...

I'm betting its 4 tho.

 

[LynchpiN]

I was going to ask exactly the same thing! In DNB I believe there are like 10 or 12 tracks each side Such a thick sound...

My bet is also four (two each side). But I would not be surprised if there's more. :hotjump:

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

Napalm death tracked 6 for an album a while back, I think it was one they did with Colin too.

 

[LynchpiN]

An brazilian band named Angra just released an album with 8 rhythm guitar tracks. They are extremely tight, so they could afford it. Blind Guardian and some other Power-ultra-pompous-orchestral freaks does a lot of it too.

 

[SliderJeff]

lynchpin,

Where did you hear/read that Dennis (Ward) had done 8 tracks for rhythm on "Temple of Shadows"? Kiko and Rafael are tight players, but 8.. that's nuts. The tracks seem a little thicker and heavier than on previous releases, but didn't seem 8 tracks heavy. Too bad it seems like Eduardo has really lost something on his vox. "Rebirth" and "Hunters and Prey" are some of my favorite prog metal discs. Edu really breathed new life into Angra when he came onboard after Andre left... but he sounds incredibly strained and lacks the range he had on previous cds on this new one. Bummer.

Later,
Jeff

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

8... jesus haha

 

[NK]

We did 4 tracks. I definitely don't remember the modes of the Triaxis though, sorry.



Neil K

 

[LynchpiN]

Neil, thanks a lot for the time and info!

Jeff, Kiko said that while they were tracking the guitars in São Paulo. It was kind of an experence, so I don't know if Ward actually used all of those in the final mix. But Temple of Shadows surely sound thicker than previous Angra releases.

I like Edu's vocals, but it's not being easy on him. Now that he's with Angra he's making like three shows in a week. He have an great drive and a beautiful voice, but everyone expects another castratti like Matos. Edu even had some health problems... He's great now, but opinion is that he should sing more like he did in Symbols.

I agree that his vocals sound thinner in this album, but I believe that's due the the massive instrumental. His vocals tracks are great for what I know, but the guitar and drum oriented mix kind of messed with it a bit. It's a great album nevertheless.

See ya!

 

[SliderJeff]

Thanks, Neil. I figured I'd give it a shot on the Triaxis mode question. No worries.

Lynchpin, thanks for the info. Yeah.. .not really sure what is up with Edu now. I hope the loss of his range and overall melody isn't premanent. It sounds like the rest of the guys wanted him to sing with a gruff edge to his voice and that just shot the hell out of it to me. We don't need him doing "Wuthering Heights" *cringe* or anything, but I'd like to see him return to "Nova Era" form.

Thanks again for the info, Neil and Lynchpin.

Regs,
Jeff

 

[SliderJeff]

NK,

One more question. With regards to the Triaxis and 2:90 and recording 4 tracks. Do you happen to recall if you went with multiple mics on a single track thru session, or different EQ's or guitars or mic position or what in order to vary the overall harmonic content of all 4 tracks. i.e. did you do anything differently in the signal path for track 1 vs. 2 vs 3 vs 4? Do you have any hard and fast rules (or at least starting points) that you use when it comes to multitracking rhythm for heavier bands?

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[NK]

Same mic, same speaker. No changes per track. No hard and fast rules except it has to crush.



Neil K

 

[silverwulf]

Same mic, same speaker. No changes per track. No hard and fast rules except it has to crush.



Neil K

Agreed...that's what I've always done...it always sounded fine without having to adjust everything for extra tracks...

Neil, do you have any idea what type of cabs were used on these recordings for Nevermore? Marshall, Mesa, etc? I know Jeff has had some Carvin cabs for a while now.

 

[SliderJeff]

NK,

Wow... that's awesome. So you don't get any kind of chorusing effect using the exact same setup for 4 tracks, huh? I would have thought that using 4 identical setups would require machine like precision as far as the tightness of the players to avoid chorusing. Pretty damn cool. BTW, loved the "it has to crush" comment.

Thanks again, Neil.

Regs,
Jeff

 

[NK]

We used Marshall cabs on POE and DNB I believe. The only time you'll get chorusing is when the guitar's out of tune. Keep an eye on that and you won't get any chorusing.

 

[SliderJeff]

Thanks again, Neil!

Regs,
Jeff