Reznor and his thoughts on downloading...

[DAVETHEMETALGUY]

i read this on fmqb.com this morning....interesting


NIN's Reznor Suggests Digital "Tax" For Downloading
January 10, 2008


Recently, Nine Inch Nails' Trent Reznor revealed online the 'sales' figures for his collaboration with rapper/poet Saul Williams. Williams' record, The Inevitable Rise and Liberation of Niggy Tardust, was released online in November with the option to pay $5 for a high-quality download, or get lower quality files for free. After extensively detailing the results in a post on NIN.com, Reznor found that only 18.3 percent of those who downloaded the record actually paid the $5 and said he had mixed feelings about the experiment.

Now Reznor has spoken to CNet about the Saul Williams album and what the industry could do about free downloading of music. Summing up the continuing changes in the industry, Reznor told CNet, "the bigger picture that you've had to face as a musician over the last few years, which in my mind was a bitter pill to swallow, but it's pretty far down the hatch with me now: the way things are, I think music should be looked at as free. It basically is. The toothpaste is out of the tube and a whole generation of people is accustomed to music being that way...There's a difficult transition in the mind of the musician and certainly in the mind of the record label. If that is the case, how does one adapt to that?"

He suggests one possible solution is that "if there was an ISP tax of some sort, we can say to the consumer, 'All music is now available and able to be downloaded and put in your car and put in your iPod and put up your a-- if you want, and it's $5 on your cable bill or ISP bill.'"

As for his disappointment with the Saul Williams album experiment, Reznor said, "Why do I end up stealing music? Usually because I can't get it easily somewhere else or the version I can get is an inferior one with DRM, perhaps, or I have to drive across town to get it to then put it on my computer or it's already out on the Internet and I can't pay for it yet." He adds, "So I thought...here's the record in as great a quality as you could ever want, it's available now and it's offered for an insulting low price, which I consider $5 to be, I thought that it would appeal to more people than it did. That's where my sense of disappointment is in general, that the idea was wrong in my head and for once I've given people too much credit."


haha
ISP 'tax'

 

[Cheiron]

Well an ISP tax isn't too far off the mark. We already pay a 'tax' on burnable CDs (which goes to RIAA or something). But yeah. Won't happen.

 

[TBJ]

Even though I am not a NIN fan, I applaud the way he thinks about the whole issue. An ISP Tax might seem like a crazy idea right now, but compared to how things are I wouldnt put it past some companies to start doing that. Kinda like the tax that was going to be imposed in all IPod Purchases a while back because companies assumed everyone that had an Ipod had stolen music on it.

 

[dcowboys311]

An ISP tax would be way too much work to be worth it. Sure, the RIAA would be making some money, but all of the indie labels who aren't affiliated with the RIAA would be screwed. It's not like people exclusively download RIAA material. How would that be fair to the small labels?

 

[The Fiddler]

Well an ISP tax isn't too far off the mark. We already pay a 'tax' on burnable CDs (which goes to RIAA or something). But yeah. Won't happen.

Yeah, just like cable companies never have rate hikes because people are opposed to paying more for a lot of stuff they don't want to see or hear.

 

[Cheiron]

No. But why would ISPs voluntarily pay RIAA (or some other organization). They won't. Unless RIAA can make a deal after threatening (with high chance of winning) lawsuits against ISPs for allowing illegal content on their servers. But I don't think that RIAA will win such a suit.

And I don't feel that congress is going to pass such a law.

 

[kashford]

The recent "free downloads" from bands and artists that have started since Radiohead recently released their album online have been hit and miss. If the RIAA wants to make money, which they do, they need to do two things. First, lower the price of CDs in general. Sure each CD they sell will result in a lower profit, but if it drives more consumer demand, they'll profit out of the sheer amount of CDs they should sell. Secondly, make more music avaliable to the public. For instance, I do not buy CDs at local stores (only online now) because I cannot go to my local Best Buy and find a decent CD to purchase.

The RIAA hurts itself, looks bad when it files lawsuits against little girls or a single parent, so in the end, people who download music for free now feel justified in their actions.

The situation has progressed into a never-ending cycle and I applaud Reznor for sheerly stating the facts and realizing that the situation is probably beyond the RIAA's control now.

 

[DAVETHEMETALGUY]

yeah, i think Reznor's experiment didnt work and he's just stating what happened.

 

[jkohn]

The problem with the tax approach is administering it, and figuring out who gets a cut. It can't be just the RIAA, much as I'm sure they'd like that. You've also got non-RIAA labels, and what about other content that gets pirated: movies, software, ebooks? Those guys are going to want a cut as well, and if you're going to do it for the RIAA it's only fair you do it for everybody.

I'd actually be OK with something like this if I thought the money would make it's way to the content produces (ie bands), and not just the big companies. But there's not much chance of that IMHO.

 

[jkohn]

BTW I think the problem with Reznor's expiriment is that the 'free' version was too high of quality. 192kbs MP3 is plenty good enough for the iPod generation, those crappy little earphones won't let you hear the difference between 192 and 320 in most cases. If the free version had been 48kbps then it would have served as a nice demo for people to get an idea if they actually like the music and then I bet more of them would have been willing to pay a buck or two for better MP3's.

It's also possible that the album in question really sucked and after a single listen of the free version nobody wanted to buy it. :smile:

 

[Cheiron]

True Jkohn. It's also possible that the only reason people downloaded it was because it was free, and never would have bought such an album. It's also possible that without free downloading only 15% would have bought it, thus by allowing downloading an additional 5% decided purchase it.

Who knows.

 

[Magius]

There were over 100.000 downloads in 2 weeks. What are the chances of this release by Saul Williams, who has never even gone gold, going platinum in 2 weeks? Without promotion! Slim I'd say. A lot of people who wouldn't have bought it downloaded it just because it was free.

 

[sccaldwell]

If the RIAA wants to make money, which they do, they need to do two things. First, lower the price of CDs in general.

I'm not disagreeing with you that they should/could lower the price of CDs, but I don't think it would solve the problem at all.

In fact, I think the record labels would be in even MORE financial trouble, because I'd guess that they'd sell VERY few additional CDs....but they'd make less money off of each.

Why? Simple. Most of the people who are currently stealing music will continue to do so...."Hey, I was getting [ie. stealing] it for nothing before, why would I want to start paying for it now, just 'cause they lowed the price?"

To quote the late, great Bill Hicks, "People suck, and I can prove it on an Etch-a-Sketch."

 

[DAVETHEMETALGUY]

maybe this will help...?? WTF?

Sony Launches Platinum MusicPass Without DRM
January 7, 2008

After the news broke last week that Sony BMG would make at least part of its music catalog available without digital rights management (DRM) software, the company made it official today by announcing the launch of Platinum MusicPass. Platinum MusicPass is a series of digital album cards that enable consumers to download full-length albums, and in many cases bonus content, in the form of high-quality MP3s that are playable on all digital music devices. The first 37 titles in the series will debut on January 15, and by the end of the month, MusicPass cards will be available at 4,500 retail outlets across the U.S. MusicPass cards will debut in Canada by the end of January.

"The introduction of MusicPass is an important part of Sony BMG's ongoing campaign to bring its artists' music to fans in new and innovative ways, and to develop compelling new business models," said Thomas Hesse, President of Global Digital Business & U.S. Sales. "The MP3 files delivered through MusicPass play on computers, as well as on all MP3 players, including iPods. This makes them a simple, easy to use solution that will appeal to fans who already access their music on the Internet, as well as to consumers who are just getting into the digital realm. The cards themselves are high-quality collectibles featuring artist images and album information. They're a great choice whether you're buying for yourself, or as a gift for occasions ranging from a birthday to Valentine's Day."

The cards will be offered at a suggested retail price of $12.99, which will include the complete digital album plus bonus material. In order to get the content from the cards, consumers scratch the back of the card to unveil a pin number. They then visit MusicPass.com to download the music files. Two of the albums included in the initial offering, Celine Dion's Taking Chances and Kenny Chesney's Just Who I Am: Poets & Pirates, will be made available both as regularly priced Platinum MusicPass Cards and as special $19.99 versions through which consumers will receive the complete album and bonus material, plus the choice of one additional album from that artist's catalog.

"We see MusicPass as a great way to bring digital music to the physical retail space," Hesse added. "We believe it will have strong appeal for a broad range of consumers, and that it will ultimately expand both the digital and physical markets for music. As we begin the roll out of this impressive new product we are extremely encouraged by the high levels of enthusiasm that MusicPass has generated among our artists and launch partners, and we look forward to making music fans across the U.S. and Canada a part of the MusicPass experience."

 

[kashford]

maybe this will help...?? WTF?

Sony Launches Platinum MusicPass Without DRM
January 7, 2008

After the news broke last week that Sony BMG would make at least part of its music catalog available without digital rights management (DRM) software, the company made it official today by announcing the launch of Platinum MusicPass. Platinum MusicPass is a series of digital album cards that enable consumers to download full-length albums, and in many cases bonus content, in the form of high-quality MP3s that are playable on all digital music devices. The first 37 titles in the series will debut on January 15, and by the end of the month, MusicPass cards will be available at 4,500 retail outlets across the U.S. MusicPass cards will debut in Canada by the end of January.

"The introduction of MusicPass is an important part of Sony BMG's ongoing campaign to bring its artists' music to fans in new and innovative ways, and to develop compelling new business models," said Thomas Hesse, President of Global Digital Business & U.S. Sales. "The MP3 files delivered through MusicPass play on computers, as well as on all MP3 players, including iPods. This makes them a simple, easy to use solution that will appeal to fans who already access their music on the Internet, as well as to consumers who are just getting into the digital realm. The cards themselves are high-quality collectibles featuring artist images and album information. They're a great choice whether you're buying for yourself, or as a gift for occasions ranging from a birthday to Valentine's Day."

The cards will be offered at a suggested retail price of $12.99, which will include the complete digital album plus bonus material. In order to get the content from the cards, consumers scratch the back of the card to unveil a pin number. They then visit MusicPass.com to download the music files. Two of the albums included in the initial offering, Celine Dion's Taking Chances and Kenny Chesney's Just Who I Am: Poets & Pirates, will be made available both as regularly priced Platinum MusicPass Cards and as special $19.99 versions through which consumers will receive the complete album and bonus material, plus the choice of one additional album from that artist's catalog.

"We see MusicPass as a great way to bring digital music to the physical retail space," Hesse added. "We believe it will have strong appeal for a broad range of consumers, and that it will ultimately expand both the digital and physical markets for music. As we begin the roll out of this impressive new product we are extremely encouraged by the high levels of enthusiasm that MusicPass has generated among our artists and launch partners, and we look forward to making music fans across the U.S. and Canada a part of the MusicPass experience."

Maybe. I was recently at Starbucks and I looked over at their music selection rotation device thing, and I noticed that the iTunes digital cards were more or less empty while the actual CDs were quite full. I speculate that this allows computer-illiterate individuals to simply download the music they have already paid for and simply import it into their iPod or Mp3 player quite simply without having to rip the CD. Just speculation.

And rebutting the claim I made earlier about lowering the price of CDs, I know from personal experience from working at Best Buy that many people do not buy CDs because of the price. But it is also hard to determine whether their reluctance to buy stems from the price or their ability to get it online (either paying or pirating) because no one will ever blatantly say they pirate music on a regular basis.

 

[AMBR]

no one will ever blatantly say they pirate music on a regular basis.

? I've heard many people admit/brag about it.

Face it, a majority of people want to get the most for the least. If that means dl'ing music for free or paying even a dollar for music, they're going to get it for free. There's got to be an answer to how the music industry can still be profitable even with dl'ing, but a lot more research needs to be done on this. I have no idea what the solution is, but I admire people like Reznor and other music industry entities for trying different ideas.

 

[Pellaz]

There were over 100.000 downloads in 2 weeks. What are the chances of this release by Saul Williams, who has never even gone gold, going platinum in 2 weeks? Without promotion! Slim I'd say. A lot of people who wouldn't have bought it downloaded it just because it was free.

100,000 is gold status in the US, not platinum, which is 1 million copies sold.

I think a lot of people downloaded it because it had a Famous Name associated with it.

maybe this will help...?? WTF?

Sony Launches Platinum MusicPass Without DRM
January 7, 2008
(.....)

There's an older thread discussing this move by Sony. Offering cards for sale in brick-and-mortar stores, for stuff that you later download at home, seems kinda stupid. Why drive to a store to pick up such a card?

a) The album might be downloadable online for free
b) If I was willing to drive to a store and spend $12.99 for a CD -- the going price for many CDs at Best Buy already -- I'd rather just get the CD complete with the liner notes and packaging, rather than some card to take home and download it later.


Weird idea. I kinda hope it flops.

 

[Magius]

100,000 is gold status in the US, not platinum, which is 1 million copies sold.

I think a lot of people downloaded it because it had a Famous Name associated with it.

Actually Gold is 500,000 for albums and singles with 1,000,000 for Platinum. 100,000 is platinum for Music Videos. Clearly some synapses got crossed in my thinking.

There's an older thread discussing this move by Sony. Offering cards for sale in brick-and-mortar stores, for stuff that you later download at home, seems kinda stupid. Why drive to a store to pick up such a card?

a) The album might be downloadable online for free
b) If I was willing to drive to a store and spend $12.99 for a CD -- the going price for many CDs at Best Buy already -- I'd rather just get the CD complete with the liner notes and packaging, rather than some card to take home and download it later.


Weird idea. I kinda hope it flops.

It's a gift card to give to people into downloading albums. If you were to download it yourself you'd have an account and not need a card. Or, as you said, if you were in the store you could buy the CD.

 

[Pellaz]

Actually Gold is 500,000 for albums and singles with 1,000,000 for Platinum. 100,000 is platinum for Music Videos. Clearly some synapses got crossed in my thinking.

Ooops, yep, 500,000 is gold status. Duh.

 

[Kenneth R.]

The issue with taxing downloads, as some have started to hit on, is that not all downloads are from RIAA artists, or even music at all. If I'm downloading an install.exe for Winamp 5, I'm going to get taxed on that. I'd get taxed on AIM conversations, posting on UM (it has to download the page), etc. So the money from this tax would be inappropriately distributed. It won't work. I don't care much anymore anyway since I plan to move to Canada.