Should metal bands turn down the volume?

Obviously I'm in the minority here but...
A little loud music for a couple of hours once or twice a month isn't going to make anybody deaf... If your going to shows 3-4 times a week or if you are a musician yourself then ear protection is called for. But I hate shows that aren't loud enough... I want to feel the music as well as hear it...
 
Sharky, the point isn't an aversion to loud music. The main reason people think a lot of shows are too loud is because the actual sound quality of the musical performance is shit!
 
Is this a band thing, or a venue thing? Seems like shows I've seen at the House Of Blues have had better sound, and not so loud that you would require earplugs. Galaxy Theater has been the same a lot of the time.

Last two shows we went to, Queensryche and Porcupine Tree were both incredibly loud. IMHO, not wearing earplugs at either show would have been stupid. I don't always feel the need, but it was a solid wall of sound at one of them. Thing is, it didn't sound great either, and the earplugs further chop certain frequencies, making the show not the quality it could be. Now some of the best shows I saw last year didn't require them at all.
 
I'm so glad someone else brought this up because I didn't want to be "the wuss". Believe me, at a concert I do want my music loud. But there is a difference between loud music and noise. When it gets so loud you can't hear the music, and it is painful, then the entire experience is just ruined. I've noticed this more with the headliners at PP. At PP4 I had to leave during Symphony X. Last year it was Evergrey if I remember correctly. They all cut it a little close, but going over the edge makes it unbearable.
Loud music equals good.
Noise equals bad.
 
Man, Metal fans have changed in 25 years. While I don't want my ears bleeding, I agree with Greykiller 100%.
 
Obviously I'm in the minority here but...
A little loud music for a couple of hours once or twice a month isn't going to make anybody deaf... If your going to shows 3-4 times a week or if you are a musician yourself then ear protection is called for. But I hate shows that aren't loud enough... I want to feel the music as well as hear it...

Actually, check this out. Fifteen minutes of exposure at 100db causes damage.
 
Oh boy! From opinion question to neuro-science smack down. :)

And SharkBlack, I definately want to feel the music as well. A little rumble in the chest is a good thing! It's that next level of volume, possibly used by 20% of the bands, that just makes it insane.
 
Is this a band thing, or a venue thing? Seems like shows I've seen at the House Of Blues have had better sound, and not so loud that you would require earplugs. Galaxy Theater has been the same a lot of the time.

Last two shows we went to, Queensryche and Porcupine Tree were both incredibly loud. IMHO, not wearing earplugs at either show would have been stupid. I don't always feel the need, but it was a solid wall of sound at one of them. Thing is, it didn't sound great either, and the earplugs further chop certain frequencies, making the show not the quality it could be. Now some of the best shows I saw last year didn't require them at all.

It can be a combination of bands and venue. It all starts with the band itself. If they have a great sound and tone then it goes to the house P.A. and SOUNDMAN. If that is tiptop then it wont matter the volume, you will not loose quality at all.
 
I won't go to a show unless I have earplugs, and I carry spare pairs in my car, in my camera case and in my daypack. I take a lot of ribbing from friends about wearing earplugs at metal shows, but I value my long-term hearing more.

I have been to one arena show where the sound was absolutely perfect: Trans-Siberian Orchestra at Gwinnett Arena a few years ago. I was sitting about midway back on the floor for a half-house show and had my plugs in, all ready for the show. It started up and I thought "Hmm, seems a little faint." I took them out and the sound was just right -- crisp, but not overpowering. I left them out for the remainder of the show and my ears were not ringing afterwards at all. (!)

I did wonder if the sound was too faint further back in the cheap seats, though. If it was, then Greykiller's observation about yakkers and amateur singers ruining a show could easily come true. :(

I make it a point to take my earplugs out at least once or twice during a show, just to see how good -- or bad -- a show sounds...usually during a favorite song or passage. Last night at Dimmu Borgir I did it twice, during "A Succubus In Rapture" and also at the end of "The Insight and the Catharsis." :headbang:
 
Definitely disagree with SharkBlack. I am paying the price for not wearing ear plugs in the first 10-15 years of my concert going life. My hearing definitely has been affected. I wish I would have worn ear plugs from the beginning. Especially when I saw Megadeth in the late 80s and Symphony X at PP4.
 
Here's my view.


The overall volume must be louder than the crowd. You don't want the cheering or the chanting to be louder than the band, cuz that throws them off.

You want the guitars/bass/keys/vibrophone/accordion louder than the drummer. Drums have no volume controls. Yes, there are such things as soft-playing drummers, but not in metal! So the guitarists and bassist must be able to get loud enough to balance with their drummer. In most small clubs, that means the bass drum should really be the only thing miced to get that lovely chest thump, but that's in an ideal world without screaming drunk people.



What WOULD be nice, however, is if guitarists knew how to dial in their TONE correctly. This coming from a bass player is gonna chafe some asses, I know, but TOO BAD! Every shitty band I see or hear, the guitarist's tone sounds horrible. Why? Cuz they're playing their amps at full volume, using their bedroom practice settings. They don't take the time to listen to themselves and their gear at full stage volume and say, "Holy crap that's a lot of mud I better dial out some of that low end..." and they just turn their guitar tone to deep rumbling nothingness. No definition, no clarity, no actual discernable characteristics to their playing. Just a wall of mud.

This is why wireless systems are so lovely. When we set up, we can walk out in the crowd and listen to our amps at a distance to tell if something isn't balanced right. My brother's rig has his basement settings saved and his on-stage settings saved, and even after that he can still dial the low end to fit the stage. He starts up his rig, warms up for a minute, and listens to it in the middle of the room whenever he can.

Oh, and one more thing. There is such thing as good guitar tone that DOES NOT HURT YOUR EARS. If you need to wear earplugs because your tone is so sharp and harsh and grating, not because your band is loud, then your tone sucks and you need to FIX YO SHIT. It's quite easy to take an EQ and wiggle knobs until you find the magic frequency that is too damned painful. When you find it, take it out. A good guitar tone sounds good at max volume without needing earplugs to keep your ears from throbbing. After that, THEN put the plugs in to keep from going deaf once the whole band starts kicking.


There. That should alienate me from a ton of six-stringers here. ;)
 
That is why you will be helping set up the stage and help dial in the settings along with the sound man at TEXAS MADFEST.
 
That is why you will be helping set up the stage and help dial in the settings along with the sound man at TEXAS MADFEST.


Just a word of advice...you are not going to get the exact sound you want in a festival setting and you are not going to make everyone happy.

In a single show, you have a single soundman/monitor, dedicated channels on the board, and all day to soundcheck those levels. Even with that, they soundman has to adjust once the acoustics change due to crowd influx.

In a festival, you alternate your FOH, monitors, and you share channels. Soundchecks are essentially line checks so you cannot play with the sound. Just as soon as you get one band right, *everything* changes and a new guy takes over.

I have one person that handles 80% of the bands for the past three years. I fly him in from Germany because he is considered the best in Europe and all the bands respect him. However, headliners bring in their own guy(s) and guess who catches shit for the *loud* or *muffled* sound they have compared to the other bands?

You roll with punches. Same shit with the lights...

Do your best, listen to complaints, improve what you can, and ignore the rest.
 
Just a word of advice...you are not going to get the exact sound you want in a festival setting and you are not going to make everyone happy.

In a single show, you have a single soundman/monitor, dedicated channels on the board, and all day to soundcheck those levels. Even with that, they soundman has to adjust once the acoustics change due to crowd influx.

In a festival, you alternate your FOH, monitors, and you share channels. Soundchecks are essentially line checks so you cannot play with the sound. Just as soon as you get one band right, *everything* changes and a new guy takes over.

I have one person that handles 80% of the bands for the past three years. I fly him in from Germany because he is considered the best in Europe and all the bands respect him. However, headliners bring in their own guy(s) and guess who catches shit for the *loud* or *muffled* sound they have compared to the other bands?

You roll with punches. Same shit with the lights...

Do your best, listen to complaints, improve what you can, and ignore the rest.


Thanks for the advise, I can really use it. Thank goodness we have an excellent sound man doing our show, but then again as you said you can't please all the people all the time, and as you said who catches the shit??? ME. Hopefully we will achieve the sound needed for our show, and we can give the people their money's worth, as you do every year.

Again I really hope you are able to attend TEXAS MADFEST. It would be an honor to have you there.

Thanks for all the advice, it has really helped me in putting together my show this year.
 
Progpower does have great sound, but I've noticed that bands with a more stripped down sound, like Brainstorm and Tad Morose, come off better than the more complex prog bands. Power metal you can just turn way the hell up and it sounds great. Prog, it just kinda gets lost sometimes.

Maybe the volume isn't a factor, but I have to wonder why even in festival settings, pop music sounds better than metal. I figured it must be the volume, but maybe I'm wrong, according to some posters here. Are there different challenges in getting a metal band to sound good as opposed to a pop band?

And I've noticed this holds true even with amateur performers. Stick a country, jazz, or pop artist with no following in a bar and they sound better than a metal band that's an international act.
 
Are there different challenges in getting a metal band to sound good as opposed to a pop band?
pop bands have pro touring musicians. metal bands have ... well ... metal musicians who spend more time drinking and trying to fuck their bandmates' girlfriends than practicing. (big time) pop bands have expensive producers behind the sound board. metal bands have a drunken, half-deaf cousin behind the board whose process for adjusting the sound is limited to making all the lights turn red. fans of metal expect the sound to be loud and heavy enough to permeate their drunken skulls. fans of country, pop, & jazz expect the sound to be good. metal singers scream - there's no way to make that sound good. pop singers sing. drunken metal fans think they are the star of the show. pop fans shut up and look for the stars on stage. the difference is that a pop concert is a musical performance. a metal concert is a drinking party with noise. :loco:

face it. for the most part, live metal sucks.
 
Best sound I've heard in concert is probably Josh Groban. Perfect. I was second level in the arena though. Sure, if people talked around me I would hear them and be annoyed. But that's okay because I can tell them to just shutup.

Best metal sound I've heard - Circus Maximus last year. The pre-show in general had excellent sound as many people noted. Dragonforce/Lacuna Coil tour... excellent sound. Didn't need my ear plugs, but was still loud enough to be felt (at Masquerade).

The other night with Kataklysm.. they had awesome sound. Devil Driver sounds shitty no matter what sound. Unearth sound was good. Dimmu's sound was good at times bad at others. Sometimes the singers mic wasn't on... and sometimes there was some interference on the mic, but the worst was that it was really hard to hear the melody guitar at times. Still awesome show \m/ That was at the Tabernacle. Ohter time I was there (for G3) it had great sound too. Not sure if it was the resident sound guy or what...

Worst show for sound for me was Trivium/In Flames. I had to concentrate hard to hear leads and melodies. And if you love In Flames you know how that the melody is key to the songs.
 
I agreee!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it`s so f-king stupid stand like 500 meters (usually more) off the stage if don`t want use ear plugs. (sorry about bad english)
 
Joe-×;6212610 said:
pop singers sing.

No, pop singers lip sync and dance around like morons, or in the case of the women, dance around while removing more and more clothing. After all, you can't sing AND dance AND take off your clothing. Singing AND dancing is for those chumps with the real talent on Broadway and London's West End!

:loco:


Though seriously, not all metal singers scream. Roy Khan moves around a bit and still belts it out and sounds good. Bruce Dickinson and Tobias Sammett run around like monkies charged up on caffiene and still belt it out effortlessly.


Oh, right, this is about metal bands turning their stuff down. Well, bands aren't like to turn down, so it's best to protect your hearing and enjoy the show. :)
 
Roy Khan moves around a bit and still belts it out and sounds good. Bruce Dickinson and Tobias Sammett run around like monkies charged up on caffiene and still belt it out effortlessly.
well then that just proves that they're all lip synchers then doesn't it? :p