Vocal Editing - Elastic Audio, Slip Editing or VocAlign?

[Ermz]

Pretty self-explanatory guys. Which is the best method to use for vocal editing?

It's not something I've done much of in the past, but I have a very vocal centric album mix coming up, where not all the vocals were tracked as tightly as I'd like.

So a workflow where I can intergrate autotune alongside a good time-displacement method would be awesome. Thinking to use Elastic Audio and Autotune in PT at the moment, before bouncing the tracks.

 

[Zack Uidl]

Personally, I use slip editing. I actually use that for all timing related editing. For stuff like vox, I have found slip editing to be the most natural. I commit the autotune to the track so I don't have an autotune plugin running.

 

[Skinny Viking]

Elastic audio is GREAT for manipulating vocals, even on parts where you're almost positive you'll get artifacts or just bad results. I can only suggest making sure to only use the X-Form algorithm. It takes a lot longer to process but its works fantastic

between that and your autotune plugin you should be set. Personally the best results I get are tuning the vocals 1st, then printing them, THEN use EA for lining up and tightening

 

[C_F_H_13]

Personally the best results I get are tuning the vocals 1st, then printing them, THEN use EA for lining up and tightening

+1 absolutely. I always follow the simple mantra of "tune first, time last".

Personally I don't use elastic audio unless I absolutely have to, and if I do it's only on doubles of backgrounds....never on the lead.

 

[Ermz]

What do you use instead, C F H? VocAlign? I can't imagine slipping stuff around by hand would be too comfortable in PT.

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys.

 

[Aaron Smith]

VocAlign fan here... Mostly on big layered sections. The center vocal I always use as the baseline, and then adjust the others to it.

 

[Aaron Smith]

+1 absolutely. I always follow the simple mantra of "tune first, time last".

Crazy, this seems backwards to me and is the opposite of what I've always done. I always thought it seemed like a better idea to have the takes locked in, then get the tuning to match once the waveforms are locked... What's the big upside to tuning first and fixing the timing last?

 

[K Odell]

Crazy, this seems backwards to me and is the opposite of what I've always done. I always thought it seemed like a better idea to have the takes locked in, then get the tuning to match once the waveforms are locked... What's the big upside to tuning first and fixing the timing last?

Yeah same here. I have always done my editing first with EA then do my tuning. And Vocalign is def the best way to go for any doubles or big layering IMO. Locks everything in real fast rather than having to sit and eyeball it next to the guide track.

 

[Seth Munson]

Crazy, this seems backwards to me and is the opposite of what I've always done. I always thought it seemed like a better idea to have the takes locked in, then get the tuning to match once the waveforms are locked... What's the big upside to tuning first and fixing the timing last?

Because (in my experiences) tuning something that has already been manipulated doesn't sound as good as tuning the original track

 

[Skinny Viking]

Because (in my experiences) tuning something that has already been manipulated doesn't sound as good as tuning the original track

bingo

the way I learned and see it ... any editing you want to do to a vocal is based on the idea of its timing because ideally, that vocal should already be in tune anyway

even with healthy crossfades at edit points, sometimes the tuning plugins get a little glitchy when something has been already stretched / chopped / etc. So just to avoid any chance of a problem, I always tune 1st

 

[K Odell]

Makes sense. I guess I just figure if the edits are done well enough then you shouldn't have to stress those things, but given how bad some of the people we record may be.........yeah I can get what you guys are saying.

 

[slashvanyoung]

It depends. If I only do little editing, some cutting, some moving etc. without actually manipulating the waveform, then I'll usually tune after editing (when tuning is needed at all which I try to avoid as often as possible).

But when it's obvious that some deep editing is in need, I'll tune first too.

There is an exception though: When I know I'm going to use EA, I'll always tune beforehand as it yields less artefacts IME.

As I'm more and more moving away from PT, I'm accordingly moving more and more to slip editing than using EA and VocAlign.

I can live without VocAlign for the most part, but when I work with something with heavily layered vocals, I miss it. I wish they would release VocAlign Pro as VST at some point.

 

[jangoux]

slip editing here or logic flex audio if It needs any time stretching

 

[AdamWathan]

Slip editing isn't so great on vocals in my experience unless you are making TINY adjustments that you can't hear anyways, because anything remotely significant sounds really obvious... I'm always time stretching, I find it gives the best result.

VocAlign shouldn't really be in this topic I don't think? It isn't useful for regular vocal editing, only for syncing up harmonies or other doubled parts... It does a great job there though, but it is just time stretching as well, just doing it automatically.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

Elastic audio is the tits for this. You can even level out the dynamics somewhat (-6dB) with the trim control in elastic properties. Lining up and even basic tuning can be done for harmonies really easily.

You can do manual (slip style) editing but you'll need to use TCE for some parts.

"Tune first, timing second" seems to be a good rule that I hadn't figured out yet.

 

[Morgan C]

Crazy, this seems backwards to me and is the opposite of what I've always done. I always thought it seemed like a better idea to have the takes locked in, then get the tuning to match once the waveforms are locked... What's the big upside to tuning first and fixing the timing last?

Also, I use Melodyne, and if I tune after timing, Melodyne just throws all my work away because it slightly speeds everything up (or down, I forget).

 

[jval]

Auto tune and elastic audio for sure. Work in Polyphonic and then switch to X-Form once all the edits are done. VocAlign is an INCREDIBLE time saver when it comes to doubled vocal parts. Literally saves HOURS of work in a couple clicks.

And I also tune first and then edit timing.

 

[JeffTD]

I use a combo of slip editing and stretching, and I tune first as well.

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

I use a combo of slip editing and stretching, and I tune first as well.

same here, the slip method is flawless as long as you cut in the right spots.

 

[JeffTD]

Yeah tbh I don't get when people say slip editing sounds obvious - I do it all the time and as long as you know what syllables you can and cannot edit (eg: ess's and eff's leading into a word are not slippable), it's fine. It's just like with any other vocal editing technique - listening to the end product is key, and the waveform/grid relation means fuckall a lot of the time.