Century Media suing BitTorrent users... Opinions???

[TwizstedJesus]

Currently there are two joint suits collectively targeting 3,136 defendants who shared the latest Lacuna Coil record Dark Adrenaline. Four civil complaints are pending against 4,327 metal fans who shared the 2011 Iced Earth album Dystopia. For all suits, the defendants have been accused of participating in a cyberspace “swarm” via BitTorrent. Since 2010 a quarter of a million BitTorrent users have been sued in Federal Courts across America for possible copyright violation. Where large suits have targeted those who shared such major motion pictures as The Hurt Locker and The Expendables, the suits brought forth by Century Media have a new legal twist.

Where lawyers and judges have debated if large numbers of individuals spread far and wide can be named in a single suit, these particular complaints not only name the individual parties as defendants, they also name the particular swarm from a specific date sharing a specific copyrighted work.

Jay R. McDaniel is one of the New Jersey lawyers behind the lawsuits. McDaniel’s told Northjersey.com that “because we believe that the swarm — that is the network of users — is capable of being sued as an entity, and the entity has a physical presence in New Jersey in the form of the various equipment that its New Jersey resident users are using to further the operations of the swarm.”

McDaniel has also filed expedited disclosure of the defendants’ identities as well as an order restraining them from continuing to copy or distribute the protected works. However two separate U.S. District Judges have rejected these filings as a result of concerns raised by judges in similar cases that the widespread use of wireless routers today makes it less certain that the internet subscriber cited in a suit actually engaged in an illegal download.

As with numerous past cases of entertainment companies versus alleged pirates, these cases do not appear to be about the overall goal of fighting infringement as much as they are about squeezing a settlement out of the accused.

So the question remains will these various claims ever see a court room? Will Iced Earth and Lacuna Coil convince Century Media to withdraw the suits much like All Shall Perish did earlier this year? With reports of numerous defendants already receiving letters from McDaniel’s we shall find out soon enough.

Iced Earth Singer AGAINST Lawsuits -



Quote:



Much like in the All Shall Perish case, the ‘Dystopia’ lawsuits were not brought to the band’s attention before being filed, according to a statement Iced Earth guitarist Jon Schaffer posted via the band’s Facebook page:

It has come to my attention that Century Media is suing fans over illegal downloads of (among others) our latest album,’Dystopia’. I felt it was important to clarify that we had no knowledge of this motion and were, sadly, not asked permission.

We all know the music industry is changing. We have been adapting to this model by embracing legal streaming services such as Spotify and by bringing our music to places we have never played before by touring our proverbial asses off.

As much as we respect that the labels are having a harder time selling music, we feel this is a misguided effort and want to make sure our fans know we would have not given our consent would we have been asked.

Metal Insider recently reported that they had contacted Century Media for a statement, and although no official response has been made, an anonymous Century Media employee states that nobody at the American offices knows anything about the suit and that they are checking in with their European branch to see if they have any information. Additionally, as of this posting, no Lacuna Coil members have commented on the situation.

 

[dcowboys311]

You download some mp3s and find out the albums suck, and then get sued for it. What bad luck.

 

[TwizstedJesus]

I'm just glad I own 12,000 cds. The music industry, it sucks, but I always support the bands.
I figure, if a band puts out a great disc that you like alot, you should buy it...if you don't, the band makes no money and lose the inspiration to make another disc that will just be ripped off anyway.
The record label greed is what ruined the music industry in the first place...FUCK YOU CENTURY MEDIA!~

 

[nailz]

Since CM put their catalog back on Spotify, They're protecting their work. Good for them. They're not neglecting online streaming technology. They offer their catalog for download purchases and for 'free' through Spotify. There's no good reason to be downloading illegally that which is readily available in easy to access online content. People who continue to torrent these things can no longer use the argument "sampling with intent to purchase." Spotify has changed the game.

On the Technology side, however....

Jay R. McDaniel is one of the New Jersey lawyers behind the lawsuits. McDaniel’s told Northjersey.com that “because we believe that the swarm — that is the network of users — is capable of being sued as an entity, and the entity has a physical presence in New Jersey in the form of the various equipment that its New Jersey resident users are using to further the operations of the swarm.”

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

 

[dcowboys311]

People who continue to torrent these things can no longer use the argument "sampling with intent to purchase." Spotify has changed the game.

Yes, it has allowed people to feel justified and 'support' their favorite bands by giving fractions of a penny instead of just a penny.

Let the 7 pages and inevitable thread-lock enter....

 

[nailz]

I've bought albums from Amazon mp3 after hearing it on Spotify. My point was that there is now a legal method of listening to music for free. Did you expect a perfect solution to a technological paradigm shift immediately?

 

[dcowboys311]

I'm sure you have bought the albums after hearing them on Spotify, just like I've bought more than I'd like to admit after hearing them through BitTorrent or Blogspot or Bandcamp or whatever, but to a normal, non-industry oriented person, it's gone from "I pay for the song on iTunes" to "I pay for the Spotify subscription". Clearly someone's losing out in that equation. Not sure why after all these years of back and forth bickering between me, you, and everyone else you'd think that I'd expect a perfect solution to anything!

 

[DuchessOfDork]

There really is no perfect solution. While I might have personally used Napster to download, sample, and then eventually buy, there are millions who did not. It's a real shame. In the end, there will always be people who steal, regardless of how many people are good and actually purchase the music they enjoy.

 

[nailz]

I'm sure you have bought the albums after hearing them on Spotify, just like I've bought more than I'd like to admit after hearing them through BitTorrent or Blogspot or Bandcamp or whatever, but to a normal, non-industry oriented person, it's gone from "I pay for the song on iTunes" to "I pay for the Spotify subscription". Clearly someone's losing out in that equation. Not sure why after all these years of back and forth bickering between me, you, and everyone else you'd think that I'd expect a perfect solution to anything!

Because it's fun. Lol. I see your point, and we're both right, as much as we can be, but the fact is, it's better to have a model that's a work in progress than to fight an impossible to win war on piracy and punishing 'could be' customers. Spotify's payout isn't perfect, or even good. But it's better than the alternative, and it's a start. That, mainly, is my point.

 

[dcowboys311]

Because it's fun. Lol. I see your point, and we're both right, as much as we can be, but the fact is, it's better to have a model that's a work in progress than to fight an impossible to win war on piracy and punishing 'could be' customers. Spotify's payout isn't perfect, or even good. But it's better than the alternative, and it's a start. That, mainly, is my point.

Progress is usually a good thing, and in the music biz's case is 100% necessary for survival, but the thing is, we don't know if the 'new' system is better than the alternative! 200 people's contribution of a penny each is equal to one person's contribution of $2...

You are 100% right that it is fun, and I doubt this will be the last time this ever comes up, or even if either one of us want it to be.

 

[nailz]

I still wish Spotify would partner with Amazon and iTunes and add a right-click "buy Album/Track now!" option.

 

[Exploding Ned]

As a record and cd show promoter since the early 90s, I've seen some really wacky stuff go on through the years. Biggest reality slap in the face was when I realized front and center just how little the labels care about the artists. Never will forget the conference call with 2 RIAA lawyers where they started going off bleeding compassion for all the poor artists. They certainly got an earful from me right then and there, about just how much b.s. that statement was. Bottom line is, most artists are in fact not getting paid, or are not getting paid well. The answer from the beginning with the internet should've been to set it up where no one could get free music on this new medium. Ever. But that didn't happen. Kinda like congress being lax on illegal immigrants for decades, then all the sudden trying to fix something that can't really be fixed. This argument will go on forever. People claiming to be such great fans just wanting to either spread their fave bands music around so someone will maybe buy it, or claiming they just wanna sample it before they buy it. Same argument with the bootlegs. Just trying to get the band's name out there so everyone will know how great they are live. I don't buy any of those arguments. If you like the band, prove it. Support them. If you're a label and claim to believe in the band(s) you just signed, prove it. Pay them well, support them, promote them well. Otherwise STFU about caring so much for an industry you've helped to destroy. This is a fragile industry. Especially now. So if Spotify has the means to send some moolah to the artists, good. If X other medium is giving out free music, close it down or make it start collecting money to be sent to the artists. Wanna do a lawsuit? Fine. Go to the band first, discuss it, then proceed if the band agrees. Otherwise, this whole thing is a pissing contest to see who has the most stones. And the artist doesn't win. It can only be about the artists and the labels working for the better good of the artists. Otherwise the music industry croaks.

 

[dcowboys311]

As a record and cd show promoter since the early 90s, I've seen some really wacky stuff go on through the years. Biggest reality slap in the face was when I realized front and center just how little the labels care about the artists. Never will forget the conference call with 2 RIAA lawyers where they started going off bleeding compassion for all the poor artists. They certainly got an earful from me right then and there, about just how much b.s. that statement was. Bottom line is, most artists are in fact not getting paid, or are not getting paid well. The answer from the beginning with the internet should've been to set it up where no one could get free music on this new medium. Ever. But that didn't happen. Kinda like congress being lax on illegal immigrants for decades, then all the sudden trying to fix something that can't really be fixed. This argument will go on forever. People claiming to be such great fans just wanting to either spread their fave bands music around so someone will maybe buy it, or claiming they just wanna sample it before they buy it. Same argument with the bootlegs. Just trying to get the band's name out there so everyone will know how great they are live. I don't buy any of those arguments. If you like the band, prove it. Support them. If you're a label and claim to believe in the band(s) you just signed, prove it. Pay them well, support them, promote them well. Otherwise STFU about caring so much for an industry you've helped to destroy. This is a fragile industry. Especially now. So if Spotify has the means to send some moolah to the artists, good. If X other medium is giving out free music, close it down or make it start collecting money to be sent to the artists. Wanna do a lawsuit? Fine. Go to the band first, discuss it, then proceed if the band agrees. Otherwise, this whole thing is a pissing contest to see who has the most stones. And the artist doesn't win. It can only be about the artists and the labels working for the better good of the artists. Otherwise the music industry croaks.

Ok the issue I see here is that you're assuming that every artist, just by virtue of being an artist, deserves to be compensated and compensated well. Sorry, but that isn't realistic at all. It's just like every other industry, music or not, where people either like what you do and pay for it or don't like what you do and do not pay for it. Survival of the fittest. Obviously that's an extreme oversimplification but even in the pre-internet days, not every artist was paid well. Not sure why it'd be different in the internet age.

 

[Exploding Ned]

Ok the issue I see here is that you're assuming that every artist, just by virtue of being an artist, deserves to be compensated and compensated well. Sorry, but that isn't realistic at all. It's just like every other industry, music or not, where people either like what you do and pay for it or don't like what you do and do not pay for it. Survival of the fittest. Obviously that's an extreme oversimplification but even in the pre-internet days, not every artist was paid well. Not sure why it'd be different in the internet age.

Yes you have way over simplified my point. Obviously I don't mean every single artist should make a fortune. But they should be fairly compensated for their work.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

The answer from the beginning with the internet should've been to set it up where no one could get free music on this new medium. Ever. But that didn't happen.

I'm not really even sure how that could have happened. The internet is about sharing information, and since music was pretty much bound to go digital, and digital files are "information".. yeah.

I'm not saying it's RIGHT to steal or trade or anything, but the only real difference between trading MP3s and say... trading mix-tapes that your buddies made is that it's a lot easier to trade MP3s. Mix tapes took time and effort.

There's really no easy answer for this problem. People are gonna share, and artists are gonna get screwed no matter what.

 

[High Speed Kurt]

A buddy of mine is freaked he is going to be a part of this. He bought the Lacuna on vinyl, it didnt come with a digital download as most do. He grabbed it off the net, not thinking twice cause he bought it in a different format. How would that be handled?

 

[nailz]

If he hasn't been served don't worry about it. If he has, this is basically CM's way of scaring people into settling instead of a big, scary court case. This entire thing will never make it to a court room and if it does, it's based on such laughable argument premises that there's no possible way it could ever hold up to anyone who knows anything about how the internet works (based on the quotation above. I have no idea how true or accurate it is). It blows my mind that these record companies employ lawyers who have 0 idea how technology works and then bring lawsuits that make no sense to courts.

That said, your buddy is still stealing. He bought a Vinyl copy that did not come with a digital release. If he wanted that he should've bought a digital release. You don't really "back up" records. They're not a digital medium.

 

[dcowboys311]

That said, your buddy is still stealing. He bought a Vinyl copy that did not come with a digital release. If he wanted that he should've bought a digital release. You don't really "back up" records. They're not a digital medium.

Didn't the RIAA not too long ago make a big deal about how CD ripping isn't ok either? I personally rip vinyl and tapes all the time so I can listen to them on the way to work and so I can have a second source in case the record were to warp.

Hell I remember being told on here that I'm a criminal because I chose to download mp3s for a CD I own because it's faster than ripping it myself.

I'm no lawyer but in an ever-changing market like this, you're going to have multiple interpretations of existing rules. Are they supposed to be followed to the letter? 'Spirit' of the law? Legal doesn't mean right and illegal doesn't mean wrong.

 

[PureXul]

This entire thing will never make it to a court room and if it does, it's based on such laughable argument premises that there's no possible way it could ever hold up to anyone who knows anything about how the internet works (based on the quotation above. I have no idea how true or accurate it is). It blows my mind that these record companies employ lawyers who have 0 idea how technology works and then bring lawsuits that make no sense to courts.

The part about New Jersey is purely a question of jurisdiction - even if that gets thrown out, CM could refile in a more appropriate jurisdiction and force the case to be tried on its merits.

I agree that the quote is an absolute joke, but a poor argument to get a favorable jurisdiction doesn't nullify an entire case.

 

[nailz]

Didn't the RIAA not too long ago make a big deal about how CD ripping isn't ok either.

IMO making a digital copy from a digital source is fine. Ripping a record yourself? I guess also OK. Downloading a digital copy of a Record is kind of like buying a book and then downloading the kindle file to read on your kindle. I just don't know how I feel about that in a legal sense. I suppose it's kind of grey to me. Myself? Don't give a fuck.