Is it just me, or does the production of Fear of A Blank Planet kinda blow?

[Harry Hughes]

So today I was just a bit bored and compared FOABP to Deadwing.
Deadwing sounded SO MUCH better that it wasn't funny.
FOABP just sounds really muffled and weak in comparison. Deadwing isn't excessively bright, so why Wilson decided to do such a darker mix is beyond me.
Far better separation in the Dead Wing mix too.
And what's with Steven Wilson decided to just master it a lot quieter?
It just seems unnecessarily dynamic to me.
It's something that works well for Rage Against the Machine's debut, where they go into a quiet part and then go into a loud part and just kicks you in the face, but in FOABP, the extra dynamics really don't add anything to the music, it just detracts from it really.
I just don't get how you can get WORSE over time with the production. Surely you'd think over two years Wilson would become a better mixer, sheesh.
FOABP is a great album, but goddamn it, I can't help but think a better mix would have done it much better justice.

Anyway, enough of my rant.
What do you guys say?

 

[XnaySaturo]

Meh. I'd say the mixes are different, but that's mostly because of the songwriting and orchestration. I don't really see what you mean about dynamics. I know he's mastering quieter, but I don't really see any negative aspects to it. I can't really think of anything I hate more than soft passages being loud as fuck (think BTBAM - Colors). I dunno, to me it just seems like he's pretty consistant since In Absentia for his own stuff, but for me that's always gonna be the best one.

 

[Harry Hughes]

I get the idea of doing different sound mixes so stuff has a unique sound, but there's a difference between doing different sounding mixes each time and making it sound fucking kick ass (Sneap for example) and then there's kinda well, a different sounding mix that sounds like a huge step backwards sonically

 

[Morgan C]

I like FOABP's production, its nice and natural. Its all a bit messy but it works. Not nearly as good as Deadwing/In Absentia though.

The Incident, however, holy shit. What a fucking atrocity of an album. Worst production since they got semi-famous, really soft ("I don't like clipping or fucking up the mix in any way so I'm going to COMPLETELY BURY THE DRUMS SO THERE ARE NO TRANSIENTS" good fucking idea), and ridiculous dynamic ranges to the point where I either CAN'T HEAR the soft bits or the loud bits are blowing up my ears. And the songs are so fucking pointless, wow. The only memorable part from the entire album is one riff in Time Flies, which happens to also have one acoustic riff repeating for about 5 of its 11 minutes.

 

[Harry Hughes]

Yeah I agree about The Incident, Morgan.
Everything about the album sucks. The songs are just shit and the production is totally bleh.
I like dynamic range (the last two Katatonia records are great examples of good dynamic range, but not excessively so), but geezus, that shit where you have to constantly fuck with the volume manually is just annoying

 

[GarethSE]

this is how i feel about every single porcupine tree production. boring muffled pod xt guitar shite ^_^
funnily enough fear of a blank planet is the only album of theirs i could still tolerate musically and sonically last time i listened to them

 

[Harry Hughes]

this is how i feel about every single porcupine tree production. boring muffled pod xt guitar shite ^_^
funnily enough fear of a blank planet is the only album of theirs i could still tolerate musically and sonically last time i listened to them

Deadwing muffled?
I a/b'd it against many other pro productions, and muffled it is not.
The POD thing is a rumor anyway. It was used for some demo tracks/scratch tracks, that's it, no POD on the final recordings.
ALL the rhythm guitar tracks are real amps. There is the occasional plug in for lo fi effects and shit, but all the leads and rhythm tracks are mic'd up cabs with a proper tube amp. Bad Cat amps blended with Marshall

 

[JeffTD]

Deadwing muffled?
I a/b'd it against many other pro productions, and muffled it is not.
The POD thing is a rumor anyway. It was used for some demo tracks/scratch tracks, that's it, no POD on the final recordings.
ALL the rhythm guitar tracks are real amps. There is the occasional plug in for lo fi effects and shit, but all the leads and rhythm tracks are mic'd up cabs with a proper tube amp. Bad Cat amps blended with Marshall

I'd believe that on In Absentia, since it was a big budget with a big name mixer and whatnot, but Wilson himself has said numerous times that he uses the POD for rhythm guitars 90% of the time.

Not too hard to believe when you consider Ghost Reveries is 2 tracks of PODxt and sounds killer.

 

[Harry Hughes]

I'd believe that on In Absentia, since it was a big budget with a big name mixer and whatnot, but Wilson himself has said numerous times that he uses the POD for rhythm guitars 90% of the time.

Not too hard to believe when you consider Ghost Reveries is 2 tracks of PODxt and sounds killer.

So many different sources though.
From some places, I hear he tried POD for In Absentia then ditched it when they did Deadwing, then I've read that people have emailed John Wesley, who engineered the guitars and he confirmed that in fact it's always been real amps that made it to the final product, just with Wilson doing practically all the scratch tracks on POD. I'd be more inclined to agree with Wesley than Wilson, but that's just me.

 

[XnaySaturo]

Deadwing muffled?
I a/b'd it against many other pro productions, and muffled it is not.
The POD thing is a rumor anyway. It was used for some demo tracks/scratch tracks, that's it, no POD on the final recordings.
ALL the rhythm guitar tracks are real amps. There is the occasional plug in for lo fi effects and shit, but all the leads and rhythm tracks are mic'd up cabs with a proper tube amp. Bad Cat amps blended with Marshall

Not true. SW said he didn't use only real amps, at least for the Incident. Not sure if it's POD or something else though.

 

[Ermz]

I felt the same way about FoaBP the moment I heard it.

Gavin talked about their intentional move to retain more dynamic range in their masters. This record is prime evidence for why I like louder masters. Too much dynamic range in rock music is unnecessary IMO. Heck it's unnecessary in almost anything. There is no time that it's practical to sit there listening to a record, turning up to hear the whisper quiet soft bits, only to have the next section totally annihilate your speakers. Not only that but in many ways digital relies on the transient control of hard mastering since we don't have the natural saturation effects of working on consoles and tape on most records of these budgets.

My fave PT production is In Absentia, which has amazingly well produced ambient sections. Truly wonderful mix on the softer stuff. And put on trains for the best acoustic guitar tone ever... next to maybe Nickelback's 'Photograph' hahah. Deadwing was cool. Steven did a nice transition taking that sound and making it his own on a lower budget, but since then it's just been awful demo sounding stuff. I was amazed more people didn't make a fuss about it. I called FoaBP out the day I heard it on a local musician forum and the general response was 'herrr durrrrr!??'.

Don't really care about the amps TBH. Whether it's POD or real, I don't listen to PT for the heavy bits, since the tone almost always blows arse regardless what's being used. Their acoustic, dreamy and ambient sections are where it's at.

 

[drew_drummer]

Disagree with your comments on their heavy tone. Regardless of it being a real amp or not, the tone for the heavy sections in Anesthetize is very nice.

 

[egan.]

My fave PT production is In Absentia, which has amazingly well produced ambient sections. Truly wonderful mix on the softer stuff. And put on trains for the best acoustic guitar tone ever.

I agree with this completely. I always think it's strange that people group this in with the self-produced stuff when it seems so superior to me.

 

[GarethSE]

i believe you mean "hurrrr" ermz ^_^

 

[slashvanyoung]

I like Deadwing's production just as much as In Absentia. I'm not at all bothered by the greater dynamic range of FOABP and yes, the guitars are quite muddy comparatively, but it's not nearly enough of an issue (anything production wise on that one) to make or break this record for me. ITE, FOABP just lacks quality songs IMHO. Anesthetize is the only stand-out track for me (with the title track being solid with it's drive, as is "Sentimental" with it's mood). But even those kinda feel like formulaic reproductions of Deadwing counterparts.

The piss-boring "My Ashes" as the second track really destroys the flow of the record early on.

 

[Exocaster]

I disagree wholeheartedly with the OP and most of the comments regarding FOABP in this thread. In Absentia is my favorite of theirs songwriting-wise, but I feel the mix on FOABP is the best of anything I've heard from them. The drums in particular I felt sounded great; much more open than the prior two records. I did prefer the distorted guitar tones on In Absentia overall though; fantastic compared to merely pretty damn good.

I get the impression though that my tastes aren't in line with most of the posters in this thread- and I can say for sure I know my tastes aren't in line with this forum in general ; it's a knowledge base and resource for me.

The one thing I will agree with is The Incident- it bored me, to be honest. I didn't feel like the songs went anywhere, and nothing on there really grabbed me. It was a letdown.

 

[Harry Hughes]

I just listened to the album again today.
Anesthetize is definitely a killer track song writing wise, the best of PT's career IMO.
I notice when it gets to the heavy rhythm guitars, not only does it sound muffled, but fuck it almost sounds like it's in mono in comparison to my favorite production references.
Fuck, I even have some stuff I'm doing for a mate's demo that sounds clearer, less congested and has better stereo width in the rhythm guitars than FOABP and hell I only got interested in sound engineering less than a year ago.
I guess it's probably because I frequently reference other mixes rather than going "blind" so I actually know what I want my stuff to sound like.
It sounds like Wilson just went into this one blind which to me is not the best approach if you have anything less than godly ears.
Here's hoping Wilson lets his musical ego go for the next album and realizes he needs someone else to handle mixing and mastering duties and well fuck, more of the engineering duties too so for once we get a guitar tone that really fits the mix rather than sounding too thin or too muddy and muffled

 

[Machinated]

+1 on the In Absentia production love

paul northfield is the man

 

[dcb]

id say mixes suck,when your girlfriend shows you a song and says : that sounds amateurish and shit ;-)
thats what happened to me with fear of a blank planet, hehe.

deadwing to my ears sounds really good, i really love the guitar tones, but also the riffing on deadwing was cool here and there. i love that pt do their own thing and do not sound like
all the other bands out there. more natural. more real. because this band really knows how to play.

i think steven is very very picky about his production and i also think every decision he makes is conscious.
it may not be to everyones taste, but i really like that he walks his own path and uses pod xts ;-) (like i have for over 8 years now)