Manticora, Circus Maximus and the "Metallica Effect"

[General Zod]

Hey, it may mean a lack of enjoyment for us, but for the people who came to see exactly what Circus Maximus has to offer as opposed to a band like Manticora, well, CM may be the band of the festival for those individuals.

True. There will always be people who think that one of the ten bands was the one who stole the show. Hell, some people thought that Jon Oliva project thingamajig was the cat's meow. Most of our crew couldn't keep their eyes open.

Zod

 

[Dark One]

True. There will always be people who think that one of the ten bands was the one who stole the show. Hell, some people thought that Jon Oliva project thingamajig was the cat's meow. Most of our crew couldn't keep their eyes open.

Zod

Yep. I even heard people in the hallway saying how boring Tad Morose's set was. They must have meant the music, because they sure as hell couldn't have meant the energy.

 

[mtlheart]

In most cases the energy level drops during Prog performances. But, energy level doesn't necessarily equate to enjoyment. Anyone who's been to a TSO show can tell you that. It might even happen when Conception follows Orphaned Land, depending on how well OL goes over with the crowd in general.
However, power doesn't always beat out prog in energy. PPIII, for example, held the anti-thesis to Zod's hypothesis. Pagan's Mind (prog) opened Saturday night. Secret Sphere (power) followed them and there was a BIG drop in energy level. So big in fact that it didn't go unnoticed by Ramon:-
Ramon: How many people can this place hold?
Audience: 1200 (smattered response).
Ramon: How many?
Audience: 1200! (slighly more responses).
Ramon: 1200? Huh, it sounds like 12.

 

[ashaman7122]

It's a music forum. All we do is beat dead horses.

Zod

Heehee...this is true...oh shit, how could I forget?


Rock on!

 

[ashaman7122]

Ramon: 1200? Huh, it sounds like 12.

Yeah...poor bastard...nice guy, though.

I thought the Sphere boys got a decent amount of respect during their set. Although I remember it, their whole set just kinda ran together...nothing that stuck out, I guess.

I do remember the goofy dancing chick doing the back-up vocals. Gratuitous non-eye-candy...haha!

Nice bunch of guys, though...and I do like their albums...plus they had good energy...just couldn't compete with the Pagan's hype that preceded them...


Rock on!

 

[JonnyD]

True. There will always be people who think that one of the ten bands was the one who stole the show. Hell, some people thought that Jon Oliva project thingamajig was the cat's meow. Most of our crew couldn't keep their eyes open.

Zod

The Savathingy was a dream come true for me ... but alot of ppl did seem disapointed

 

[sccaldwell]

I don't disagree. However, if you had to name the band who got the biggest crowd reaction at each festival, it's been bands that make you want to bang your head and throw your horns to the sky:

Angel Dust (PPII)
Edguy (PPIII)
Evergrey (PPIV)
Tad Morose & Brainstorm (PPV)

But that's not the point for everyone. 95% of Power Metal does very little for me (and I suspect a fair number of other ProgMetal fans). Period. What that means is that even if I do "enjoy" a Power Metal band's set (translation: I don't get bored and decide to go CD shop), I'm not going to be head-banging, etc. It's just not my thing. I like Evergrey, but I don't headbang or mosh (which is something I completely don't understand).

Change your wording to "biggest OBVIOUS crowd reaction" and I'll agree more with your list, but if you're trying to gauge MY reaction to a band, don't measure it by "crowd reaction" (ie. how badly I need to see a chiropractor due to head-banging), but by how close my jaw has dropped to the floor by the end of their set.

I think that's one of the basic, core differences in Prog- and Power-metal bands at concerts... The Power fans want to head-bang, while the Prog fans want to *WATCH* the show -- the WHOLE show -- which I would think is damn near impossible while head-banging. Also, I've never tried it, but I'd say it'd be really hard to head-bang to a song in 9/8, etc, and I think you'd definitely hurt yourself if you tried....

I guess my point is that with progmetal bands (or fans), gauging crowd reaction to a band based on head-banging, etc just simply does not work.

BTW, the only bands on your list that I actually enjoyed were Evergrey and (to a lesser degree), Tad Morose. Edguy was fun, but I'm not a huge fan (incredibly cool guys, though).

Brainstorm and Angel Dust bored me to tears....I gave them each 2-3 songs, then went to browse the vendors. I wouldn't be surprised if you did the same during several of my top ProgPower bands: Pain of Salvation, Vanden Plas, Dreamscape, ARK, Kamelot, Zero Hour, Redemption, Superior...

But hey, as long as everyone gets something they like, right?

 

[sccaldwell]

Whoops...that should be "Zebra - NO Tellin' Lies"

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

I don't really see the fun in headbanging to power metal.....just doesn't seem very "headbanging" to me. May it is if you don't know about Cryptopsy.

 

[metropolisimages]

I once saw Pantera open for Skid Row in Houston and Pantera literally sucked the life out of the crowd. There was nothin left for Skid Row. I felt sorry for Skid Row. I completely understand what you are talking about.... I am glad we have the first slot on saturday....

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

I think Circus Maximus are going to kick butt. Some of their songs have some definite "crunch." I've swung a bit on them. I've decided that they're good for the festival for me. Their album may not be the most original thing ever, but they have some amazing songwriting skills and musicianship skills (and I don't mean just playing fast), and that there aren't a lot of bands at all who start out with a perfectly unique sound. So......can't wait to see them!

 

[General Zod]

Change your wording to "biggest OBVIOUS crowd reaction" and I'll agree more with your list, but if you're trying to gauge MY reaction to a band, don't measure it by "crowd reaction"...

I'm obviously speaking in general terms. I would never assume my opinion is shared by everyone.

Zod

 

[SavaVIDude]

Yea but wont the energy drop let people focus in on CM, and take in their proggy goodness, and experience it the way it should be? I don't think its possible to mosh to many Circus Maximus riffs, so does it matter? THe drop off in energy could let people take in the musicianship, recoup then BAM ORPHANED LAND CONCEPTIOn then Angra capping off the greatest hardon of my life.

That's some scary shit there!! Let me know what you look like (BEFORE hardon) and I'll make sure I'm on the other side of the venue!!

Chris

 

[General Zod]

The Savathingy was a dream come true for me ... but alot of ppl did seem disapointed

My biggest problem with it was the set list. It's midnight, we've all been at the venue for seven hours or more, we've been through four other bands, we're stuffed to the gills with crappy barfood, and Jon comes out and plays five songs on the his keyboard, unaccompanied, that no one's ever heard. If you intentionally wanted to suck the life out of the place, I'm not sure you could devise a better plan.

Look, Jon can do what he wants. The dude is an f**king genius and I dig a lot of his music. But come on. Give a few Tage classics, and then sprinkle in your Metal various renditions of Billy Joel's "The Piano Man".

Zod

 

[Dark One]

My biggest problem with it was the set list. It's midnight, we've all been at the venue for seven hours or more, we've been through four other bands, we're stuffed to the gills with crappy barfood, and Jon comes out and plays five songs on the his keyboard, unaccompanied, that no one's ever heard. If you intentionally wanted to suck the life out of the place, I'm not sure you could devise a better plan.

Look, Jon can do what he wants. The dude is an f**king genius and I dig a lot of his music. But come on. Give a few Tage classics, and then sprinkle in your Metal various renditions of Billy Joel's "The Piano Man".

Zod

Couldn't agree more here. I myself was 3/4 asleep by the time I heard the chorus to "Edge of Thorns" waking me up. If I recall, you had left by this time and Ali and Amman were snoring next to me, LOL. I realize it was a special set, and he needed to promote new stuff he was writing, but as you said, nobody knew the songs - and as far as I'm concerned, that's not the type of set you should be playing at a festival show, epecially a headliner

The latter portion of the show did a lot to help make up for it, but by then I was completely drained.

 

[edgeofthorns]

I went to see Creed on their Human Clay Tour in 2000 at Thompson Bowling Arena in Knoxville, Tennessee. Creed made the mistake of inviting Sevendust to open for them!

Sevendust rammed a Panteresque vibe down everyone's throats for an hour, and tore a 24,000 seat arena to pieces! Literally, I seen people carried off of the floor on stretchers, and I'm not making that up! It was one of the most brutal, rockin' performances I've seen!

Needless to say Creed struggled the rest of the night to keep people interested, including myself! I was a huge Creed fan at the time too, but Sevendust just tore em' up!

 

[TBJ]

But that's not the point for everyone. 95% of Power Metal does very little for me (and I suspect a fair number of other ProgMetal fans). Period. What that means is that even if I do "enjoy" a Power Metal band's set (translation: I don't get bored and decide to go CD shop), I'm not going to be head-banging, etc. It's just not my thing. I like Evergrey, but I don't headbang or mosh (which is something I completely don't understand).

Change your wording to "biggest OBVIOUS crowd reaction" and I'll agree more with your list, but if you're trying to gauge MY reaction to a band, don't measure it by "crowd reaction" (ie. how badly I need to see a chiropractor due to head-banging), but by how close my jaw has dropped to the floor by the end of their set.

I think that's one of the basic, core differences in Prog- and Power-metal bands at concerts... The Power fans want to head-bang, while the Prog fans want to *WATCH* the show -- the WHOLE show -- which I would think is damn near impossible while head-banging. Also, I've never tried it, but I'd say it'd be really hard to head-bang to a song in 9/8, etc, and I think you'd definitely hurt yourself if you tried....

I guess my point is that with progmetal bands (or fans), gauging crowd reaction to a band based on head-banging, etc just simply does not work.

BTW, the only bands on your list that I actually enjoyed were Evergrey and (to a lesser degree), Tad Morose. Edguy was fun, but I'm not a huge fan (incredibly cool guys, though).

Brainstorm and Angel Dust bored me to tears....I gave them each 2-3 songs, then went to browse the vendors. I wouldn't be surprised if you did the same during several of my top ProgPower bands: Pain of Salvation, Vanden Plas, Dreamscape, ARK, Kamelot, Zero Hour, Redemption, Superior...

But hey, as long as everyone gets something they like, right?

Ok, this is not a jab at prog fans but exactly what do you "do" at a concert? Just stand there with your arms crossed?

I understand the whole "watching" the show, I do not mosh or hit people, BUT I do headbang and sing my ass off, that's the whole point of a concert, isnt it?

 

[edgeofthorns]

The Savathingy was a dream come true for me ... but alot of ppl did seem disapointed

You and me both! Savatage or any Savaspinoff can come to ProgPower every year as far as I'm concerned!

Some people wouldn't know a good band if it hit em' right square between the eyeballs!

 

[TheWhisper]

Couldn't agree more here. I myself was 3/4 asleep by the time I heard the chorus to "Edge of Thorns" waking me up. If I recall, you had left by this time and Ali and Amman were snoring next to me, LOL. I realize it was a special set, and he needed to promote new stuff he was writing, but as you said, nobody knew the songs - and as far as I'm concerned, that's not the type of set you should be playing at a festival show, epecially a headliner

The latter portion of the show did a lot to help make up for it, but by then I was completely drained.

Damn, by the time they played 'EoT', they'd played City Beneath The Surface, Dungeons, Sirens, Hyde, Jesus Saves, etc...you weren't awake yet! They actually started with the new 'Pain' songs, and it was the whole band not just Jon pulling a Billy Joel piano man thing. After about 6 'Pain' songs they launched into the greatest Sava' best of I could've hoped for...but to each his own.

 

[mtlheart]

Damn, by the time they played 'EoT', they'd played City Beneath The Surface, Dungeons, Sirens, Hyde, Jesus Saves, etc...you weren't awake yet! They actually started with the new 'Pain' songs, and it was the whole band not just Jon pulling a Billy Joel piano man thing. After about 6 'Pain' songs they launched into the greatest Sava' best of I could've hoped for...but to each his own.

The "Tribute to Savatage" part WAS excellent, but the "Pain" part was exactly that... a pain.