Palm muting problem, insight? Help?

J.DavisNJ

J.DavisNJ

\m/
Nov 8, 2005
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NJ, U.S.A.
Hi all,

I put this thread in here, because it is more about technique than equipment really.

Over the past couple of years, my playing has been quite on and off. I'll have periods where I play every day, to periods where I'm taking breaks for a couple weeks at a time. It isn't because I don't love the axe, it's just my mood, busy schedule, etc.

I have been playing for over 10 years, but have never been on a strict practice schedule. There are players out there that have been playing for less time than myself, that I'm sure are better lol. When I don't play for periods of time, I am rusty and can develop some bad habits.

I have been noticing something about my palm muting technique on the low, open E lately. This is especially apparent when using a tubescreamer, so hopefully someone can identify with what I mean.

When muting the open E (usually non-fretted), my palm mutes sound "flubby" or "washy" as lot of the time. Meaning, it sounds as if I'm muting with more of the "side" of the pick and not keeping it as "flat" as I'd like. I've been trying to assess the situation and think I'm getting closer to an answer.

#1: I think sometimes, I subconciously don't have my hand far back enough (towards the bridge), and it gives the palm mutes this "flubby" or "plinky" sound I'm talking about.

#2: Maybe I have the pick at a slight angle when doing faster open muted licks.

Does anyone know what I'm talking about here? I'm trying to ween myself off of having my hand too far forward to see if it helps.

Also, when you fellas are muting single low wound strings (especially a non-fretted lower E), do you ever have your pick at a slight angle? Meaning, is the joint in your thumb slightly bent so the pick is bent?

Even though I thought the above was a cause of this problem, it seems to even help sometimes when using a tubescreamer...but I don't feel that my mutes are as clear as they could be in this situation.

Sorry for a long rant, this has just been bothering me a bit lately.

Cheers

-Joe
 
Do you use thin strings and low tuning? That will cause flubby sound. Use thicker strings and pick a bit harder (comes naturally with thicker strings) to get it tighter in sound.

I pick palm muted strings at the same angle regardless of fret (or open string).
 
Thanks for the reply.

Currently I am using 10-52 gauge in D standard tuning.

When I say "flubby", I guess I mean that "plinky"/string scraping type of sound. I may be overanalyzing this, but perhaps thicker strings would work better.

-Joe
 
abyssofdreams said:
Adjust trussrod/pickups/bridge height
I'd say 10-52 is thick enough for D standard.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is the issue. It's not so much a defect in my sound or tone, but in my technique.

I'm curious if others hold the pick totally straight when doing these fast open runs. Lots of guitarists, from videos I've seen, seem to have that slight angle to the pick when doing fast muted runs.

-Joe
 
I always have my pick at a bit of an angle. If I'm doing straight downpicking I might hold it a bit more parallel to the strings, but for the most part it's at an angle.

When first reading your description, I thought you were perhaps placing your hand too far back on the bridge and you were getting that flabby sound instead of a sharp attack, but after reading the rest - that obviously is not it.
Is it a matter of how much pressure you're applying with your palm? Perhaps you're not pressing hard enough. There is a sweet spot for palm pressure in my opinion, depending on what sound you want. If my sound was too flabby I would probably push harder. There is a limit, of course.
 
Sounds to me like you need to work on your palm placement and picking technique, as you've pretty much deciphered yourself. The further away from the bridge your palm is (I'm talking millimeters of difference) the tighter the palm muting will sound, all the way to the point where it doesn't sound like a palm mute anymore. Try and re-learn the habit of where you place your palm. You might also want to try extending your right hand fingers a bit more. If I keep my fingers close together I get more of a looser, 'flubby'-type sound. I tend to do that when I'm muting a chord for a few beats, or any other extended amounts of time, as the muscle is then soft and allows the strings to resonate a bit more. If I'm playing fast, start-stop muting, I fan my hand as much as possible, to get my hand muscle nice and firm, giving me a more manageable and controlled mute.

As for your plectrum theory, I'm not sure angle and pitch would be that much of a problem, unless you hold the plectrum very strange. Have you tried different brands of picks? The one you're using may be too thin/fat, soft/hard, small/big or blunt/sharp. I use the fattest, hardest, smallest and sharpest I can find. I use Dunlop 3.0mm Stubby's. A lot of people use Dunlop Jazz III's, so maybe a change in plectrum would help?

Also, as a further suggestion, seen as you don't play often, you may need to rebuild some hand muscle, to get that part of your hand defined again. As I said, I fan my fingers out, which in turn tenses the parm of my hand I use to mute with, but this also tends to mean I'm gripping the pick harder and digging into the strings more, which, depending on where your problem actually lies, might accentuate the issue. Seen as I play every day, my right hand is fairly solid, and I'm sure if I didn't practice as much, that would change.

Good luck with finding a solution, dude!
 
Thanks for the replies fellas, much appreciated!

I think the pressure does have something to do with it. I like applying more pressure when I'm playing more "Djenty" passages. Sorry for lack of a better word, but I think this works nicely.

If I apply the same pressure when doing the open, single-note mutes, then it's not a good combo...If you know what I mean. Too much pressure and I get the "scratchy" sound I'm talking about.

Yes, I supposed I do need to experiment and pay attention to where my hand is. The fact that I'm not playing every day is probably hurting me more than it's helping me.

I'll try to fan my fingers out more. This has always been a bit akward to me, so it will be a challenge. Lamb of God seem to use this technique, since they have a lot of fast, single-note muted stuff going on.

Thanks again guys. It probably just is a matter of more, precise practice.

Cheers

-Joe
 
Well, I wouldn't take technique tips from Willie Adler... the guy can play, and sounds good, but has a god-awful picking technique...

07610_192726_Lambofgoddown07_dn_01.jpg
 
Meisterjäger;7619066 said:
Well, I wouldn't take technique tips from Willie Adler... the guy can play, and sounds good, but has a god-awful picking technique...

07610_192726_Lambofgoddown07_dn_01.jpg
Click to expand...


I just always noticed he picks very straight...looked strange to me too.

I recognize the stubby picks you are talking about.

Right now I use "cool" picks in the 1.2mm form. I used to use Jazz III, but they didn't give me the definition I want. Too "soft" if you will.

I'm gonna try out those thick stubbies though. They might be just what I need. I think the thinner pick moves around too much as well. It's also a standard large pick size.

-Joe
 
i find when i crank my amp, and max my distortion it makes it easier to get the sound i like--the rest is practicing the amount of pressure you apply and where you place your palm-practice my friend and it will come:kickass:
 
If you have pictures of how you hold your pick, it may help :)

If you try to extend your forefinger to travel in a straight line with the centre of the pick (so your finger tip is pointing to the "sharp" end of the plectrum) then you will have the "best" picking technique according to a lot of the British guitar teachers..
Metal-guys however will usually have their finger tip pointing slightly at the hand, due to their palm muting techniques, which in turn causes a lot of unwanted hassle in other techniques / movements.

Less pressure [too much causes RSI and tension] and better pick holding can solve a lot of noise problems, speed issues and string skipping issues...

all of this was told to me by a few guys at the London Institute and BIMM when I was asking them about my picking this year - so it may not be what you're looking for.. but i figured I'd post it anyway!:)
 
If it only happens 'sometimes' examine your picking technique itself more carefully. Clean sound, no compression, find what's making some notes drastically different from other notes.

Jeff
 
JBroll said:
If it only happens 'sometimes' examine your picking technique itself more carefully. Clean sound, no compression, find what's making some notes drastically different from other notes.

Jeff
Click to expand...

Yeah I've been trying this as well. I've developed the bad habit of either pressing too hard with my palm or letting the pick angle slightly when playing faster runs.

-Joe
 
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