running two guitar amps in stereo (live)

Fragle

Member
Jul 27, 2005
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i wonder if anyone here has some experience with this?

what kinda amps do you guys run together?

and most importantly - what is the best and most efficient way to set this up in a live situation??

i'm talking about two distorted tones run at the same time, not talking about switching between amps for distorted/clean sounds.

i think i want to go this route with one of my bands, but i'm wondering how i should wire this up, and what kinda gear will give me the best channel switching options without the need for a tapdance.
 
I guess a good quality A/B box that allows for A+B and A or B to be active is probably the simplest, cheapest option that allows for some control.

That'd also let you run your pedal board in front of the A/B and have it influence both amps.

I've used a Whirlwind box to do similar in the past and had good results. Using a Coreblade and a modded JCM 800. I have no real idea why I decided to try that, was just a case of having them both at the same gig for the first time I think!
 
Hi

lehle make great quality products for that purpose
www.lehle.com

i have a lehle p-splt in use. and it works great for running 2 amps at the same time. no hum or anything

ciao
exoslime
 
Ideally, you'd want a box that gives you (at least) ground lift and polarity switch.
That Lehle box seems to have those, as does Radial boxes.

A good ol' Boss tuner (TU-2, TU-3) would work, but could give ground loops/hum.
 
It depends man. Will you need to switch channels on the amps to clean also? Do you use any effects?

My rig is setup to allow for both with minimal tap dancing and clutter. If you want to keep it clean on stage I'd recommend something like a GCX Switcher and a Ground Control Pro. I have 1 audio cable and 1 midi cable that go to my pedalboard. The rest sits in a rack. I can switch to any combination of amps and channels and switch to any effects I want with 1 button. Costs a little more but not a lot. Ground Control and GCX can be had around $600 used or $800 new. My rig has changed a bit and the diagram is a bit outdated. I no longer use the Eventide pedals and where it says Uber is now a Cobra but everything else stays the same.

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whoa, nice setup! :)

well, yes i need to switch channels, otherwise it would be simple as fuck.

let's say i'd like to run my fireball 100 together with my 5150 I.
both amp heads are set for rhythm sounds (i'd love to have the 5150 boosted with a TS but then i'll run into problems later, see below), switching off one side to mimic the left/right guitar thing when starting riffs, in breaks etc....

i also need a clean channel. this means, i could either switch the fireball to clean, and mute the 5150 (5150 cleans suck), or switch the 5150 to that 5150 style sorta clean sound - which i guess should blend pretty well, the gritty 5150 clean and the pristine engl clean.
the problem is that both amp heads need to be switched at the same time. right now the only solution for this that i can think of is a midi interface like the engl z11, and switching amp channels with a single midi program change.
now, if i want to run the 5150 together with a TS for rhythms, i'd have to switch to clean using the midi board AND turn of the tube screamer.

i also need a lead sound. at this point, there's probably no need for a volume boost. 2 heads should give me enough volume hehe. there are a number of options...i could run the 5150 dry, and the engl 100% wet (talking about delay here, no other effects will be used), run the 5150 dry and use the fx loop blend on the engl to blend in some delay, i could also switch the loop on the engl AND the mid boost at the same time for a different tone etc. it's getting rather complicated at this point i guess.

the fun starts at those sections where i need to switch from lead to cleans.

i'm *thinking* that my best bet is indeed an engl z11 or similar, boss delay in the engl fx loop, and wire it like this:
midi patch 1: both amps distorted rhythm, dry
midi patch 2: 5150 dry, fireball fx loop and mid boost on
midi patch 3: 5150 clean, fireball clean, fx loop on - switching off the 5150 side of things for the sections that need a pristine clean.
then use the morley aby box to switch between heads for those special sections.

i wonder if there's a simpler way to set it up though....i thought about it, and it sounds like a NIGHTMARE to set up in a typical live changeover.

- set up both heads, connect power, connect cabinets on my side and the other side of the stage
- connect the z11 switching loops to the engl and 5150 (4 cables involved here, no way to hardwire it)
- set up the delay, another 2 cables going from engl fx loop to the pedal (at least i can keep this on all the time)
- set up the midi board at the front of the stage
- set up the wireless system, run a cable to front of stage to boss TU2, to the amp switcher, and two cables back to the amp inputs.

it's possible, but there's a lot of room for errors.
technically i could rack up the wireless and z11, get a rack tuner, and prepare the most important connections in the rack (like labeling the switching cables from z11 to the amps etc)....i could probably rack up the delay too, but i don't quite see a benefit here. setup would essentially be the same as listed above, but less clutter involved.
 
whoa, nice setup! :)

well, yes i need to switch channels, otherwise it would be simple as fuck.

let's say i'd like to run my fireball 100 together with my 5150 I.
both amp heads are set for rhythm sounds (i'd love to have the 5150 boosted with a TS but then i'll run into problems later, see below), switching off one side to mimic the left/right guitar thing when starting riffs, in breaks etc....

i also need a clean channel. this means, i could either switch the fireball to clean, and mute the 5150 (5150 cleans suck), or switch the 5150 to that 5150 style sorta clean sound - which i guess should blend pretty well, the gritty 5150 clean and the pristine engl clean.
the problem is that both amp heads need to be switched at the same time. right now the only solution for this that i can think of is a midi interface like the engl z11, and switching amp channels with a single midi program change.
now, if i want to run the 5150 together with a TS for rhythms, i'd have to switch to clean using the midi board AND turn of the tube screamer.

i also need a lead sound. at this point, there's probably no need for a volume boost. 2 heads should give me enough volume hehe. there are a number of options...i could run the 5150 dry, and the engl 100% wet (talking about delay here, no other effects will be used), run the 5150 dry and use the fx loop blend on the engl to blend in some delay, i could also switch the loop on the engl AND the mid boost at the same time for a different tone etc. it's getting rather complicated at this point i guess.

the fun starts at those sections where i need to switch from lead to cleans.

i'm *thinking* that my best bet is indeed an engl z11 or similar, boss delay in the engl fx loop, and wire it like this:
midi patch 1: both amps distorted rhythm, dry
midi patch 2: 5150 dry, fireball fx loop and mid boost on
midi patch 3: 5150 clean, fireball clean, fx loop on - switching off the 5150 side of things for the sections that need a pristine clean.
then use the morley aby box to switch between heads for those special sections.

i wonder if there's a simpler way to set it up though....i thought about it, and it sounds like a NIGHTMARE to set up in a typical live changeover.

- set up both heads, connect power, connect cabinets on my side and the other side of the stage
- connect the z11 switching loops to the engl and 5150 (4 cables involved here, no way to hardwire it)
- set up the delay, another 2 cables going from engl fx loop to the pedal (at least i can keep this on all the time)
- set up the midi board at the front of the stage
- set up the wireless system, run a cable to front of stage to boss TU2, to the amp switcher, and two cables back to the amp inputs.

it's possible, but there's a lot of room for errors.
technically i could rack up the wireless and z11, get a rack tuner, and prepare the most important connections in the rack (like labeling the switching cables from z11 to the amps etc)....i could probably rack up the delay too, but i don't quite see a benefit here. setup would essentially be the same as listed above, but less clutter involved.

Man, my setup above can do everything you just said. That's the point of having a switcher like this. Things it can do...

Switch Channels
Select Which amps are getting signal
Switch effects in and out of the loops
Made midi changes to heads or rack effects

If you notice in my diagram the first loop is my boost. Any patch I have can have it on or off. Then it goes to the heads. You'll notice at the bottom of my diagram I have options to turn them on and off. It can switch channels on amps via 1/4" or midi depending on what they take. You can also use the loops for fx loop on and off functions again via 1/4" or midi. Effects can be set however you want via midi or 1/4" etc. And the best part... you roll up a rack, pop the front and back off, plug in the 1/4 coming from your guitar/pedalboard. Plug the midi cable into the Ground Control, plug in speaker cables to cabs, plug in power. Done. So 0 steps more than a typical guitar > pedalboard>amp>cab setup. Everything just stays plugged in and out of harms way. :)
 
thanks for the reply.

well, if i get you right, this only works in the way you mentioned if i rack up EVERYTHING, including both amps. otherwise i'd still have to make all the connections to the amps etc. i just wouldn't have to run the tuner and aby splitter out front.
unfortunately this isn't practical for me, as i use the engl in 2 other bands too, so i'd constantly have to tear the rack apart basically. plus i'd have to get a custom 2 amp head rack plus 19" storage.
on the other hand, i already have a morley aby, a midi switcher (rocktron iirc) and a 19" rack, so technically for my abovementioned setup i'd only have to buy the z11 and a bunch of cables.

basically, i wonder if there's another way to switch channels on multiple heads at the same time without going the midi route.


btw, this whole thing is supposed for one of my bands where i'll be in charge of guitar duties alone from now on, since the other guitarist quit. i think running 2 heads should fill the void of the 2nd guitarist nicely. plus i saw decapitated run a setup like this and the guitar sound was crushing. but then again, he's running them at a distorted rhythm setting at all times, only switching in the delay and wah for leads that's it, so things are much simpler.
 
thanks for the reply.

well, if i get you right, this only works in the way you mentioned if i rack up EVERYTHING, including both amps. otherwise i'd still have to make all the connections to the amps etc. i just wouldn't have to run the tuner and aby splitter out front.
unfortunately this isn't practical for me, as i use the engl in 2 other bands too, so i'd constantly have to tear the rack apart basically. plus i'd have to get a custom 2 amp head rack plus 19" storage.
on the other hand, i already have a morley aby, a midi switcher (rocktron iirc) and a 19" rack, so technically for my abovementioned setup i'd only have to buy the z11 and a bunch of cables.

basically, i wonder if there's another way to switch channels on multiple heads at the same time without going the midi route.


btw, this whole thing is supposed for one of my bands where i'll be in charge of guitar duties alone from now on, since the other guitarist quit. i think running 2 heads should fill the void of the 2nd guitarist nicely. plus i saw decapitated run a setup like this and the guitar sound was crushing. but then again, he's running them at a distorted rhythm setting at all times, only switching in the delay and wah for leads that's it, so things are much simpler.

Well if you weren't racking things up it wouldn't be ideal because you'd have wires running everywhere. Multiple head stuff gets messy quick if you don't have it all in close proximity. Here's the back of mine at one point and it wasn't even all hooked up yet. It's a pain in the ass to get up the first time but to do what you are trying to do it's pretty necessary.

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