What are you supposed to do when protesting doesn't work?

[FuSoYa]

I'm not going to assume to know anything factual, but the US government is so out of hand that I have begun to wish that someone would organize a coup, or more accurately, I would like to particpate in such a violent rebellion.

Violence is ridiculous except I have heard things like, internment camps are currently being built along with all the fucked up war stuff that's going on, all the pocket-lining and contracting bullshit, the "Freedom Fries" embarrassment, the 2000 election debacle.. there are SO many things, and what's happening is that columnists continue to write and we continue to post on the internet, and people go to marches and take their clothes off and yell, and some of the Black Bloq will maybe throw smoke bombs, but seriously wtf... I think this kind of seems like when Hitler first started imperializing, people noticed but no one acted until it was too late. That's what's happening here, it's that we're all noticing but nothing is really getting dne and soon it will be too late.

The administration does not listen to the protests, the protests are ineffective, so I am honestly asking here, when do people actually bust into the white house with uzis and mow down the administration? Because it should happen now.

 

[xfer]

dude, you're crazy. despite everything, the U.S. is still incredibly comparatively overprivileged in terms of all sorts of rights and expression and stuff like that.

we haven't even had a fraction of the nonviolent public unrest we could have and should have before resorting to violence...like, not even one percent. the reason is partially apathy, but also partially because it's not yet needed.

 

[FuSoYa]

So what is a signal of it being needed?

 

[The Dope]

Toby's post is gonna attract some serious attention to this board's activities by some Homeland Security people.

 

[FuSoYa]

Hehehe, either motW CDs will be removed from all music stores across the country or they'll just have big red white and blue stickers slapped over the front of them saying TRAITOR ASS FACE

 

[xfer]

I would say as a postmodern, relativist benchmark, when the U.S. dips out of the top twenty or even ten percent of rights-based countries in the world, then we should consider it. But not when we're in the top one percent.

 

[goatschool]

i don't see how "overprivilege" or apathy fits into any of this.

also, whether or not our own populace is ignored is one thing. quite frankly, i'm alarmed at the general policy toward the majority of other nations, which is to say, "let them eat cake"

 

[FuSoYa]

yeah alex, it's like you're saying that all the fucked things that the US government is doing should be talked about but not acted against, because we are still very priveleged.

 

[FuSoYa]

--- and not to act against it until we stop being priveleged. Also.. INTERNMENT CAMPS?!

 

[chupe666]

new motW album title: "TRAITOR ASS FACE"
with plain red & white packaging- in the form of a watercolor, of course.

 

[VangelicSurgeon]

just wanna step in and say that they renamed like every type of german food in the 40s. even hamburgers were called somehting like patriot sandwiches or something equally gay.

 

[minxnim]

they already renamed french fries "freedom fries' in some places. i wish i were kidding!

anyway, i can see xfer's point, but it is ONLY a point. if you just read the homeland security act over with a lawyer handy you'll realize it's almost time for fucking shit up.

 

[chupe666]

so you're saying once McDonald's comes out with the McAmerican (an all "beef" patty with ketchup, mayo, and blueberries), it's time for action?

 

[FuSoYa]

Seriously Alex, I'm only asking because I honestly don't know. What do you do when protesting doesn't work, a.k.a. your "democratic" government isn't listening but change needs to happen way sooner than the next election?

 

[goatschool]

yeah alex, come back.

 

[minxnim]

i mean, didn't bush (and i am not sure 100%) say something like he didn't care what protesters said, and that he had already made up his mind in assuming they were the minority?

 

[Stultus]

Seriously Alex, I'm only asking because I honestly don't know. What do you do when protesting doesn't work, a.k.a. your "democratic" government isn't listening but change needs to happen way sooner than the next election?

Nothing. The plus side of American-style democracy (=: republic) is that you get a stable government for 4 years which can't be easily shaken by the opposition. The downside is that you get a stable government for 4 years which can't be easily shaken by the opposition.

 

[FuSoYa]

I don't know if he said that, but if he did, he needs to die.

 

[goatschool]

he did say that.

at least, the 'administration' did.

 

[xfer]

No, Toby, I'm saying the opposite of that. I'm saying exactly what goatschool said, in fact...I think it's horrible how almost the entire world except the U.S./Britain (and even a lot of Americans and British) want to ignore what's going on outside their own countries and refuse to take action to stop fucked-up shit. Every time I hear someone complain that it's not America's "responsibility", I get super-disturbed.

I think there's a major problem with a lot of people simplifying to a huge degree. I think most rational people don't actually disagree with what Bush actually says--I don't. What our problem is is with his honesty. Democracy in Iraq would be incredible...human rights in Iraq would be incredible...the democratization of the entire Middle East would be beyond incredible. But are we actually going to follow through with all that, or just bomb-and-forget?

So the answer isn't to oppose events, but to ensure that those events go according to Our plan, instead of Theirs. Why isn't anyone protesting for Afghanistan anymore, and demanding stronger support for law and order there? Why didn't the Democrats tell Bush they'd lend him support for the war in Iraq if he would support an increased plan for Afghanistan reconstruction and committed to reconstructing Iraq, too, instead of posturing and using their supposed anti-war positions for personal political gain?

And preppy...I think the USA Patriot Act (and the subsequent USA Patriot II) is the worst thing Bush has done by far. Like, leaps and bounds. Which is why I was so disappointed to see virtually NOTHING decrying it when I went to the protest in NYC in February. We haven't even started protesting that; there's no need to jump ahead to violent revolt when we're too fucking caught up in reactionary politicking to focus on a real, important issue.

What's wrong with internment camps? Where do you think we should keep Iraqi POWs? If you're talking about Japanese-style internment, that's one thing, but camps by themselves...? Are they camps for capturing innocent Arab-Americans in? There's a *huge* difference between the generic internment camp and the roundup-style imprison-the-evil-races camp.