How much should I Pan, AND slide, one Rhythm Guitar Track

[MondoLikeMetal]

I've been panning rhythm hard left and right (some say pan 75% L and R), but how about panning AND sliding one rhythm guitar part a few ticks later. I use Calkwalk, and a quarter note has 120 ticks. How many ticks should I slide forward one of the rhythm guitar tracks? This will thicken the rhythm guitar parts, right?
Note: For reference, listen to the intro to "Working Man" by RUSH

 

[Plankis]

I thought it sounded like it was double tracked. One in center and one slightly panned left, maybe 40-60. But there's definitely some eq on the panned one, or completely different amp settings on it.

 

[Trevoire520]

Dont bother with this. Just re-record a second performance of your rhythm track. Panning and sliding a copy of the first track is just going to result in phase cancellation. It's not the same as double tracking.

 

[InAbsentia_]

Dont bother with this. Just re-record a second performance of your rhythm track. Panning and sliding a copy of the first track is just going to result in phase cancellation. It's not the same as double tracking.

Not really, if he duplicates his mono track and moves it across ever so slightly it'll widen his stereo image. Aka. Haas trick.

It won't be like recording a new take though, that's the same sorta deal but it thickens your sound more and gives it more balls I guess. It works because of the same concept though, minute differences in timing.

 

[if6was9]

Not really, if he duplicates his mono track and moves it across ever so slightly it'll widen his stereo image. Aka. Haas trick.

It won't be like recording a new take though, that's the same sorta deal but it thickens your sound more and gives it more balls I guess. It works because of the same concept though, minute differences in timing.

This trick works best when you pitch shift one of the them by a few cents and pan them to either side. It's a similar kind of effect to double tracking but not nearly as effective. I only ever use it when I record something live and need to thicken it up.

 

[Trevoire520]

Knock that shit down to mono and see how it sounds uke:

This is something I messed around with in my first days of recording. Much better to just record another take imo.

 

[Sonic75]

Knock that shit down to mono and see how it sounds uke:

This is something I messed around with in my first days of recording. Much better to just record another take imo.

Yeah check it in mono.

I simply record the track two times and pan hard left and right (or 4 times...it depends on...)

If you slide the tracks don't overdo!

 

[MondoLikeMetal]

I guess I didn't mention that I will seperately record the same rythym guitar track for each side. I know that if i just simply record once and then copy and paste one rythym guitar track to the other side, it sounds like a mono recording, and if i slide one track forward, you could get a flanging effect.

Just wanted to know if producers were slideing one RECORDED rythym guitar track forward, and leave another RECORDED take of the same part at 0

How's this look, Trev, Sonic

Recorded Rythym guitar part (take 1)
%75 Left at #0 tick of 480 ticks per measure
Recorded Rythym guitar part (take 2, same chords as above)
%75 Right at #4 tick of 480 ticks per measure

This algorythm would prob depend on tempo, and, of course, what sounds good

Also, Sonic or whoever, what are your panning assighnments (0% through 100%) for four rythym guitar parts, and are some of the bands I like (Dying Fetus, Cannable Corpse, Slipnot, etc) recording the same rythym guitar parts 4 times and panning

 

[006]

Never heard of anyone doing this at all, just record it and leave it where it is... don't see the benefit here.

 

[Paulie!]

Never heard of anyone doing this at all, just record it and leave it where it is... don't see the benefit here.

+1 With the second track you timing isn't dead on with the original track anyways so by sliding it forward certain parts could become off time..

-P

 

[MondoLikeMetal]

Again, listen to the intro to "Working Man" by RUSH. and you'll notice a second rythym guitar part slightely delayed - was this

1) Recorded once and effects processed in post to sound doubled

2) Recorded once and they used the old mic proximity trick (placing one mic close to amp, and the other down the hall)?

3) Recorded twice and one track was slid forward?

 

[006]

Fucking "Working Man" by RUSH is nothing like Dying Fetus, CC or Slipknot.

 

[MondoLikeMetal]

Just talking about recording tips, not genres. I used Working Man as an example, because it starts with guitar only, so you can here the production technique of guitar.

 

[Wolfeman]

Like I said in the other thread, this is counter productive. If you can't get your guitars to sound 'wide' on their own, then you are doing something else wrong.

And the guitarist from Rush uses all sorts of delays/verbs/flange/chorus/etc. That's probably what you hear. Doesn't work for metal unless you are Devin Townsend.

 

[Wolfeman]

Just talking about recording tips, not genres. I used Working Man as an example, because it starts with guitar only, so you can here the production technique of guitar.

In that case throw a delay and a verb on the track and call it a day.

 

[006]

It just sounds like two different takes of guitar. It's not a delay or any shifting of the place where it starts, if you listen to it you can hear that the two tracks are basically on with each other the entire time, with a slip here and there occasionally which is expected of older music like this before editing to fuck and back became "normal." If it were a delay or had been shifted they would be consistently off from each other.

 

[Sonic75]

I guess I didn't mention that I will seperately record the same rythym guitar track for each side. I know that if i just simply record once and then copy and paste one rythym guitar track to the other side, it sounds like a mono recording, and if i slide one track forward, you could get a flanging effect.

Just wanted to know if producers were slideing one RECORDED rythym guitar track forward, and leave another RECORDED take of the same part at 0

How's this look, Trev, Sonic

Recorded Rythym guitar part (take 1)
%75 Left at #0 tick of 480 ticks per measure
Recorded Rythym guitar part (take 2, same chords as above)
%75 Right at #4 tick of 480 ticks per measure

This algorythm would prob depend on tempo, and, of course, what sounds good

Also, Sonic or whoever, what are your panning assighnments (0% through 100%) for four rythym guitar parts, and are some of the bands I like (Dying Fetus, Cannable Corpse, Slipnot, etc) recording the same rythym guitar parts 4 times and panning

I leave at 0, so simply I pan the two tracks hard left and right.
If you have two different sounds you will get more separation.
If I have 4 gtrs, I can pan two tracks slightly inside or leave hard left and right...it depends on...

 

[MondoLikeMetal]

Thanks, guys. I need to search for more tips on panning in this forum and other tips. I've recorded demos and givaway CDs for shows,before, but now I want to make a couple of "radio-ready" CDs, so I'll I'll be picking everyone's brain here.
Can only afford to mix my own stuff, than take to a mastering house.

 

[MondoLikeMetal]

So far, I've just been recording rythym guitar tracks hard left and right with the same guitar
So you are telling me, Sonic, that you have one make of guitar recorded on one side and another different guitar make on the othere side?
If you do this, do match double-coil pick-ups for both sides (Gibson Les Paul left, Gibson SG right) or can you have double-coil one side (Les Paul) and single coil (Strat) on the otherside playing the same rythym part?

 

[MondoLikeMetal]

I agree, 006. A lot of solos and other guitar parts were doubled back then, and they weren't sliding audio clips around to match up. (And walkin 30 miles in snow to get to the studio). If you listen to Tony Iommi from Sabbath, it becomes quite apperent. I just thought that, out of the two Alex Lifeson guitar tracks in the song, one track sounded like it was purposely pushed forward a few ticks to make it thicker.