Something about guitar fizziness

[thefalloftheheretic]

Might have already been mentioned, but have you thought about the mic being the source of the fizz? The SM57 has a notorious mid boost.

 

[Derykus]

I don't believe that for a minute, that's probably just some supposed studio magic to throw off noobs trying to emulate tones.

I've gotten some very good tones with presence at 0 with several amps. If you put the mic on the dustcap, it's still going to be plenty bright. I wouldn't do it for fizzy buzzsaw metal guitars, but it really works well for some heavy rock stuff.

 

[Chainsaw Calligraphy]

I agree with neptunian. A 12db is a pretty extreme cut for guitars. If you're having trouble in the core/high mid range you might be better off trying several smaller cuts around that area. Of course it's impossible to say for sure without clips.

 

[Diego Rugiero]

Hi guys, I did a short test about my fizzyness issue. The Chain is: X-amp > TS808 (clean boost) > Decimator > 5150 > Marshall 1960AV > SM 57 (between dustcap and cone - 1 inch from grill).

5150 settings:

Gain 5
Low 7
Mid 4
Treble 7
Post 2.5
Resonance 8
Presence 7

Guitars are doubled, paned hard L&R and bused. Guitar bus is:Channel Strip (settings below), Brainworks Shredspread (for some filtering and expansion) and C4 (Andy settings).

The Channel Strip is automated to activate the cut, so you can hear the difference in one track. First 4 seconds is inactive, next 4 seconds active, then inactive 4 seconds and finally 4 seconds more activated... you should notice the difference instantly.

Let me know what do you think, my room is treated well so I can't understand what is the problem with that noisy frequency. Maybe is a cab issue? I'm, considering to buy a Mesa 4x12 rectifier cab.



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Audio:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/au1jkxatp2ha1ap/fizz test.mp3

 

[neptunian]

Doesn't sound to me like your room is the problem. More like middy amp -> middy cab -> middy mic = too much build up in that region. Your EQ cut made it sound more Mesa-ish, and if that's the direction you want to take the tone, then the natural choice is getting a Mesa cab or a more scooped speaker upgrade.

 

[Diego Rugiero]

Probably you are right, too much mids really. I'll try to get a Mesa cab.

 

[Diego Rugiero]

Thanks Neptunian, I'll try to get a new Rectifier/oversized slant cab, what do you think?

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Probably you are right, too much mids really. I'll try to get a Mesa cab.

Thanks Neptunian, I'll try to get a new Rectifier/oversized slant cab, what do you think?

I wouldn't fall into the hype trap. A Recto cab isn't going to magically give you million dollar tone. The Recto cab will actually focus that harshness up to a higher frequency.

Listening to your clip, while there is a slight buildup in the mids, it is very mild and with correct eq treatment, it can be removed. You do want some presence in that frequency area, as it is a bit too much, a wider bandwidth will go much further and sound more natural. A low bandwidth will not work so well. Bring the bandwidth up until it sounds like the frequency you are hearing is gone, then bring the gain back up to maybe -2dB or -3dB. The wider band will get the nastiness out with less drastic eq.

Like I said, I think the buildup is only minor, so correct eq techniques will indeed be me as they should as well.

 

[ZanetheVocalist]

Nothing wrong with a 12db cut if its a surgical cut with a high Q. Hell, if it sounds good it is good. Although honkiness around 1800 wouldn't be a mic issue that much as its presence boost is centered more around 2500. Keep in mind cabs have unique zones that like to get excited by the room. Try placing you current setup around in the room and see if it helps. I assume you're not using a closet right?

EDIT: I reread you're post and it says you're using a shelving eq to cut the upper mids and high end by 12db? That is drastic. Try offsetting the sm57 away from the speaker cone angled out and see if that helps.
Shit. This is worse that I thought.

 

[ibzrgtoffire]

The Recto cab will actually focus that harshness up to a higher frequency.

+1

Mesa cab owner here. I can tell you sometimes frequencies around 7K are a nightmare if the amp is not dialed in properly or/and the mic placement is not adequate.

 

[Diego Rugiero]

I'm using a treated room, with foam panels, wood diffusers, carpet in the floor and treated ceiling. My tracking room works like a rehearsal room too, so when the drums are in the room I put the cab in a corner and isolate it using some foam panels on both sides (I learned this watching Joe Barresi DVD). Thanks for the eq tips, do you recommend some eq plugin in particular? I own Channel Strip, Equality, Waves Eq and some more.



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[Clark Kent]

I've find it better when the cab can breath naturally... I mean how much room sound will a close mic'ed SM57 get? I'd say close to 0% but if the cab is surrounded with walls it can pick up reflections and other problems.

Anyways:

1) 100% agree on the middle thing. I tweak middle first since guitar is a middle instrument and that's where the cut is. The more you scoop the less cut you'll have and the more you have boomy lows and fizzy highs. I want them balanced with equal amount of everything = no fizz, no boomyness and sits in a mix.

2) Marshall cabs with V30s tend to have that certain fizz frequency around the area you mentioned.

 

[Diego Rugiero]

Thanks Clark! I'm considering buy a Mesa Rectifier slant cab to avoid that fizzy frequency.

 

[JakeAC5253]

.

I mean how much room sound will a close mic'ed SM57 get?

 

[006]

I mean how much room sound will a close mic'ed SM57 get? I'd say close to 0%...

So wrong it's not even funny.

 

[Trevoire520]

I've find it better when the cab can breath naturally... I mean how much room sound will a close mic'ed SM57 get? I'd say close to 0%

I've actually had problems with reflections coming back into a close mic on a cab before. I noticed it on parts where the guitar stopped suddenly, you could hear the echo from the sound bouncing off the wall.

 

[Clark Kent]

Hey hey now! Don't take it out of context! I said... if you let the cab breathe I've found it has close to zero bleed for reflections on an SM57. Now I can see that I wrote it in a stupid way before. Ofcourse condenser mics won't work that way.

Me and my friends took thinks to extremes years ago when doing this album for a prog band and we put a guitar cabinet OUTSIDE so there couldn't be any wall reflections since the closest walls were like over 50 metres away. The difference in bleed compared to giving the cab enough space in a big live room was unnoticable with an SM57. So... I don't believe in cabinet padding for an SM57 but you might feel differently.

 

[Diego Rugiero]

So, if a close mic'ed 57 get 0% reflection, I could mic the bottom speaker without decoupling the cabinet from the floor?

 

[sexan]

Turned it sideways

 

[Diego Rugiero]

I usually do it, but I prefer the sound I get when casters are touching the floor.