State of metal 2016

[HCL]

I think I understand well what Keregioz is saying. There are good bands that could be great if they had someone actually singing. Of course this is all a matter of perpective but as exemple I can point Soilwork and Scar Symmetry, both bands have a guy who can sing and in those cases, makes a huge difference, really huge. The bands become much more interesting, the dynamics in those bands are much more alive as also the diversity and the riffing style. Someone may not like, I personal love the dichotomy in the vocal department, makes all the experience much more enjoyable than bands that a guy is screaming the entire album.

Soilwork and Scar Symmetry are also legacy bands but very few people in the metal community seem to think so. They still consider Arch Enemy modern when they're not. That's not a reflection of the quality of their music, but metal has stagnated big time because of this attitude. That entire wave of bands are as old now as Testament were in 2000. Think about that. As I said I feel it's because metal has written itself into a corner by defining itself so narrowly when it never used to. Heavy music has moved on, it's just that metal people haven't and it's going to kill the genre if people don't start checking out other kinds of heavy music and reincorporating it back into the umbrella term "metal".

 

[Nuno Filipe]

I know that soilwork and scar symmetry are older bands, well SS isnt that old but I fail to see you point honestly. Of course things evolve and bands change but why people think that when things evolve, everything has to change? Why some modern bands cant pick a few things of older bands to make their style more interesting?

Of course things changes but if you are saying that the music scene has evolved in a way that I have to accept that the clean singing is out of fashion, I cant agree about it. As already has been said, the ease of home recording has brought too many shit and while there are a lot of people with skills beyond the standard in their intruments, by the other hand, the skill of singers has been decresing over years. I can agree that growls take some skills and time to manage, and there are great guys doing great things in the agressive department but people who can actually sing in modern bands are few, and many of them do it, because it´s a easy detour and dont have skill for clean singing. So I cant just agree that new bands are doing their thing with growls everywhere because singing isnt appealing anymore.

or probably I am just a old fart too...

 

[HCL]

I think I can simplify my argument - metal (glam excepted) generally used to have an attitude of hating what was popular which spurred creativity. Now it has an attitude of hating what's new, and it's strangling creativity. Where it used to be generally inclusive and receptive to new ideas and directions it doesn't seem to be now.

Why some modern bands cant pick a few things of older bands to make their style more interesting?

That's exactly what a lot of bands are doing but you'll be hard pressed to find Nevermore fans listening to Turnstile, for example. In the rest of heavy music there's no issue with singing, lots of bands do it:



Bands like Twitching Tongues are exactly what most metalheads say they want but because they came out of the Hardcore scene, and therefore aren't metal, they have no idea they exist.

I also can't emphasise enough how cringeworthy metal has generally become, even if it's a completely tangential point:

 

[varobinson]

You could write a ton about the topic for sure. There are still new ideas coming out still that keep the 'metal spirit' alive (IMO) and aren't sort of easy listening experiences. Revocation and Darkane are great example of interesting bands with unique riffs still packaged up in no-nonsense and accessible and powerful way. I think the high-tech and crossover (pop vocals) bands are the worst things that happened overall to be put into the metal category, a net-loss. Metal is great in terms of allowing experimentation and rule-bending. That's a strength. But when it, as someone alluded, brought in music nerd fans and the high tech shit it became a competitive too diverse shitfest to me.

Depressing that bands like Revocation aren't more successful -- of course Lamb of God are. Clearly the glut of so-called metal bands competing for fan money is extreme.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

I've said this before: the next big breakthrough for metal will be an improvement in live performances. With all the technology out there, there has to be a way to significantly improve the live music experience. Devin Townsend has already started the move forward in this space. Metal has an advantage over other types of music because it is already very theatric. I can see a band like Dimmu taking it to the next level maybe with full blown actors and shit. Should be exciting when it happens.

 

[scorpio01169]

Good points made here. I've noticed something that hasn't mentioned yet and that is loyaltism to one band or genre of metal. I partnered and co created a Facebook group called "The Pantera Project", it was dedicated to fans of Pantera and we generate a petition to have a reunion. Although I like Pantera they're far from my favorite band. A guy who was not part of the group on another page mentioned that he hated Pantera and one our members saw his post and repeated what this guy had said and gave his Facebook profile. I was ashamed that many of our members actually threatened this guys life simply because this guy hated Pantera. Because of that I left the group. It's shit like that that turns me away from metal forums like Blabbermouth.

 

[varobinson]

Good points made here. I've noticed something that hasn't mentioned yet and that is loyaltism to one band or genre of metal. I partnered and co created a Facebook group called "The Pantera Project", it was dedicated to fans of Pantera and we generate a petition to have a reunion. Although I like Pantera they're far from my favorite band. A guy who was not part of the group on another page mentioned that he hated Pantera and one our members saw his post and repeated what this guy had said and gave his Facebook profile. I was ashamed that many of our members actually threatened this guys life simply because this guy hated Pantera. Because of that I left the group. It's shit like that that turns me away from metal forums like Blabbermouth.

I got into metal as like an 11 year old with Ride the Lightning having just come out. Interestingly, back then with so few bands and the genre pretty centralized you had a lot of fan unity to an extent an the metal head sub culture was in full force, late 80s very early 90s. Seemed like people just straight up loved that core meta sound then, from Slayer to Dark Angel, Exodus, etc. I think it's been said before but the inevitable diversification really fragmented fans as you seem to have seen happen. Ironically, Pantera started that to me -- that was the first band I started seeing 'jocks' get into heavier music in the US (Cowboys just came out). Some of us true metallers were scratching our head at the phenomenon then but now it makes sense.

 

[J.Lindmann]

I grew up with 80s metal. Mostly thrash metal. And I loved it.
Over the years metal evolved. And I loved it.
Metal these days barely resembles the 80s metal. And I love it.
Today there are still bands out there that play 80s metal. And I love it.

My point is, whenever there’s a new subgenre or style of metal arising I feel good about it. Because it is fresh music. Something new.
The riffs that are being played may not be entirely new, but that is totally okay for me.
(if it wasn’t allowed to re-use any riff that has been played before, we would have to stop making music in a couple of years)
Maybe the new style isn’t my cup of tea. Okay…that’s fine. This means I won’t buy music that belongs to this genre.
No need to whine about it. So I will be buying music that actually matches my taste.
Just because new styles evolve doesn’t mean that former styles will disappear.
Nobody will get hurt when someone drops another djent core album.

And to the singing VS growling discussion:
I really doubt that young bands decide to go with growling, just to dodge the challenge of singing.
As a new band you just choose a vocal style that a) fits your genre and most importantly b) represents the style that is most appealing to you.
Yes…believe it or not…there are folks that favor to listen to gowls over singing because it’s just what they love.

 

[Keregioz]

And to the singing VS growling discussion:
I really doubt that young bands decide to go with growling, just to dodge the challenge of singing.
As a new band you just choose a vocal style that a) fits your genre and most importantly b) represents the style that is most appealing to you.
Yes…believe it or not…there are folks that favor to listen to gowls over singing because it’s just what they love.

Well, yes, they obviously like it (not necessarily prefer it though). What I'm saying is that it's a lot easier to find that kind of vocalist, and this leads to a lot more mediocre bands forming. Also, not everyone has the luxury to pick and choose who to work with.

Either way, it's definitely a relatively recent trend (as in the last 10 years or so) to just throw growling vocals to whatever style you're playing and call it a day, and obviously people think it's great, but it fucking sucks ass in my opinion, that's all I'm saying

 

[rapucore]

What I'm saying is that it's a lot easier to find that kind of vocalist, and this leads to a lot more mediocre bands forming.

But with growling, it is the same as with every other vocal style, a lot can do it but not every one is stellar or even great at it. It's not easier to master than traditional styles.

 

[Keregioz]

But with growling, it is the same as with every other vocal style, a lot can do it but not every one is stellar or even great at it. It's not easier to master than traditional styles.

Like I mentioned before, while there's definitely some skill involved with growling, it's not comparable to actual singing. Just my opinion.

 

[Mago]

I took a bit off from metal cause I couldn't really write anything that really excited me in the last 2 years.
Dived more into hardcore, even more after I joined a hardcore band.

So I wasn't as much int he loop over the last 2 years or so, but I never had any trouble of finding stuff that was cool.
I remember 2 or 3 times where was even really amazed (Dorje, While She Sleeps & SikTh iirc).
And there where countless more cool songs, where I just didn't look more into the band as a whole.

Right now I'm totally on fire with a band that mixes hardcore and metal in a pretty neat way.

So I'd say metal is pretty alive and well. As mentioned you just have to look harder to find stuff you dig.
There has always been some scene fad making it seem like everything sucks. You just tend to blend that out when you look at it from afar.

 

[crillemannen]

But with growling, it is the same as with every other vocal style, a lot can do it but not every one is stellar or even great at it. It's not easier to master than traditional styles.

Well not really... I'd say most band have growl because they couldn't find anyone to sing. And if the growler in the band could also sing they would likely have clean vocals in their song. Growl is easier (not saying it's easy) it's more of an rythm instrument really. Singing on the other hand demands so much more, flow, phrasing, dynamic and the most obvious.. stay in pitch.
For me personal if the band have growl and great clean singing it takes their music to a whole new level and would stand out from the over-inflated soso bands with growl.

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

Yeahhhh try having a Bloodbath or Pig Destroyer song with clean vocals. Not going to happen. That might be a valid complaint for metalcore or prog metal but it's just not going to happen with a lot of extreme metal.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

^lol of course he is speaking in general terms. Nobody wants and nobody asks for a clean singer in traditional death metal.

 

[rapucore]

Well not really... I'd say most band have growl because they couldn't find anyone to sing.

Or maybe growl is what suited the band or what the band wanted?

Growl is easier (not saying it's easy) it's more of an rythm instrument really. Singing on the other hand demands so much more........

Gotta disagree here, but it's just my oppinion.

Let's put it this way:

Only few growlers really stand out. As with clean singers. As with every other instrument. You can growl the shit out of yourself but still not affect the listener. Then again take someone like Mikael Åkerfeldt who conveys a lot genuine emotion even when growling.

Even if growling doesn't have the same demands as clean vocals, it has different demands. I'm not saying it's harder but definitely not easier.


Don't get me wrong. I too am looking for more and more clean and traditional vocals (on styles that would benefit from them).

Stellar growlers are hidden gems like, stellar clean vocalists and guitarists and any musicians in general. And the majority of growlers on newer bands are quite generic IMHO. There is a lot less personality on the vocal style featured by the majority.

Growling vocalists are as easy to find as metal guitarists etc. Good growling vocalists and any musicians in general are harder to find.

 

[Keregioz]

I honestly fail to understand what constitutes a "stellar" growler. I can understand different types of "growling" and I prefer some more than others depending on the music. Other than that, a growler is a growler, who fucking cares.

Unless the emotion is anger, aggression, mental disability etc. I don't see how can anyone convey anything genuine with growling as you seem to suggest. I'm not an opeth fan, but I'm pretty sure the music plays a much bigger part on conveying emotion. If you listen the vocals acappela, and out of context, I doubt you'll feel much. That, of course, is not the case with actual singing.

I'm not saying it's harder but definitely not easier.

It absolutely is easier. Some do it better, some not, but almost anyone can pass as a growler. That is just a fact. Definitely not the case with actual singing, where it's much easier to embarrass yourself if you don't use a shit-ton of autotune.

I respect that many people like those vocals, but there's no reason to try to make it something that it isn't. I mean, I like metal about 100x more than classical music, but I'm not going to try to convince you that it's as difficult to study/play it.

 

[rapucore]

Errrr........ This reminds me of Gearslutz for some reason lol

I honestly fail to understand what constitutes a "stellar" growler. I can understand different types of "growling" and I prefer some more than others depending on the music. Other than that, a growler is a growler, who fucking cares.

Well this comes out a bit narrow-minded, don't you think? Your mindset could be adjusted to every "fucking" instrument.

Unless the emotion is anger, aggression, mental disability etc. I don't see how can anyone convey anything genuine with growling as you seem to suggest. I'm not an opeth fan, but I'm pretty sure the music plays a much bigger part on conveying emotion. If you listen the vocals acappela, and out of context, I doubt you'll feel much. That, of course, is not the case with actual singing.

First of all, Opeth was just an example. And nice touch on the mental disability emotion btw, I had a laugh

Well it's really not my fault if you don't see (hear) how anyone can convey genuine emotions through growling vocals. Not anyone can hear emotions in, say guitar playing, no matter the style.

There's plenty of acappela moments of growling vocals out of context that convey something that I and many others feel. Not slightest in the vein of emotions you described.

It absolutely is easier. Some do it better, some not, but almost anyone can pass as a growler. That is just a fact. Definitely not the case with actual singing, where it's much easier to embarrass yourself if you don't use a shit-ton of autotune.

Almost anyone can pass as a clean vocalist. That is just a fact. I'm not saying - in any way - that growling is a sophisticated form of vocal expression, taking years to forge and truly master the skill. I'm just trying to fix your false accusations of growling being as easy as E-minor on guitar (what your words seem to suggest).

BTW there is no autotune for growling. If you suck at it, you suck at it.

I respect that many people like those vocals, but there's no reason to try to make it something that it isn't. I mean, I like metal about 100x more than classical music, but I'm not going to try to convince you that it's as difficult to study/play it.

I'm not trying to make it something that it isn't. I'm provoked by your words to demote and diminish the skill of proper growling vs traditional vocals. Err... Comparing metal to classical is not the same as comparing growling to clean vocals. If you feel it is, then that is your oppinion. I never suggested that.

Great debate nonetheless!

 

[~BURNY~]

Wow. Thread derailed. It's not about growls versus clean singing or this or that, it's about creativity and quality of songwritting guys.

 

[rapucore]

Wow. Thread derailed. It's not about growls versus clean singing or this or that, it's about creativity and quality of songwritting guys.

100% agreed. We went completely OT, sorry for that. Time to get on-topic again.

Today's accessibility to all kinds of metal and to a lot of it has the effect of watering it down a lot. There seems to be less unique bands simply because almost everyone has the chance to be on display (in a sense) these days. But there still is great bands forming every year with a lot of uniqueness or at least interesting blends of different styles.

@J.Lindmann had great words on the thread subject, I agree a lot of it!