My kids don't have a problem - they have full access to my CD collection, Spotify, Pandora, etc. and dad is more than happy to take them to concerts (just bought tickets to take my daughter to TSO). My questions are much more big-picture than just how it affects my own kids.
Century Media suing BitTorrent users... Opinions???
- Thread starter TwizstedJesus
- Start date
My kids don't have a problem - they have full access to my CD collection, Spotify, Pandora, etc. and dad is more than happy to take them to concerts (just bought tickets to take my daughter to TSO). My questions are much more big-picture than just how it affects my own kids.
AeonicSlumber
srs
- Aug 14, 2008
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How exactly did you get this "free radio?" Did you jack cars and stereo equipment in the 80's? Because last time I checked, you had to buy that stuff to get radio, just like you have to buy an iPhone to get internet streaming services.
Also, your entire argument hinges on the idea that you are somehow entitled to music. As if it's a rite of humanity or something. Don't get me wrong, I have downloaded in the past (and on some extremely rare occasion, I still do), so I'm not bringing the witch hunt to you or anything like that - but nobody is entitled to music. If somebody magically shut off the internet tonight and you couldn't pirate music, that would be TS man. You don't own that music, the record companies do, and they set the model of how you are supposed to buy it, not unlike with anything else in our marketplace. Now, we can disagree on the model of the music business until the cows come home, but what we cannot argue is that the model exists and so do the laws. Just because we get away with piracy doesn't make it right, and it certainly doesn't make it the standard. If you can't get your kids access to new music, that's not anyone else's problem. They are not entitled to music. Music is a commodity and a luxury, not a mandatory need.
As DC noted, bands like My Bloody Valentine and SWANS and Joy Division that have amassed a huge following because of reissues, were virtually unknown in the 80's when they were around originally. The people that missed out on them simply missed out on them and that was how it was.
What about artists that condone illegal downloading themselves? Devin Townsend has a sticky on his official message board where he says no problem. There are hundreds of interviews I can dig out where band members of all kinds of bands (from the big names to the very underground ones) say they'd rather have their music heard and not get paid a penny than not have anyone appreciate their music. There are artists who believe CDs are too expensive and they have no problem with fans downloading and sharing their music with their friends.
By the way, I am against downloading, even for sampling purposes. There are millions ways to sample music today. People don't have to download full albums to decide if they like something or not, in my opinion.
By the way, I am against downloading, even for sampling purposes. There are millions ways to sample music today. People don't have to download full albums to decide if they like something or not, in my opinion.
Oh come on, that might have been a valid point in the 1940's, but by the 70's and 80's radios were cheap and ubiquitous and with no monthly subscription fees. I remember buying a dual-cassette/radio at Goodwill for like $3 somewhere around 1980 that I didn't stop using until the mid-90's.
No, did you read my posts? That isn't what I'm saying at all. Music is a commodity that the music industry wants to sell us, yet it requires effort by the consumer to find any music other than what is currently in vogue. That just isn't a model for success. When you want to sell a product like music you need to get it out to the consumers in a way that will get them hooked and wanting more. For most people it takes more than a single listen to a song to be hooked on it and want to buy the entire album. Radio/MTV used to provide that and yet that is the part I don't see happening today with our music. Almost all of the alternatives to downloading mentioned here hinge on having expensive computers or smart phones with monthly data plans, on taking the time to find the bands, to research and listen and absorb. Active participation by the consumer. The overwhelming majority of people are either too busy or don't care enough to make the effort.
Yes, things are getting better. Spotify is great and there are more and more was to listen to music legally, but it's been 15 years since Napster came out to help fill a huge gap created by the music industry. Some people have been downloading music for their entire lives!
My point after all this is not that we are entitled to music or that downloading is alright, it's that the music industry depends on file-sharing even as it condemns it. Just my opinion.
nailz
Member
If they're producing music and don't have a contract for distribution of that product in place and are saying "whatever, download my shit, I don't care." Then, I don't see a problem. When they've contracted a distribution deal, that's a problem.
dcowboys311
Member
'Our' music has always been 'underground'. It's not going to be marketed to 13 year old girls. Ever. Plenty of styles of music flourish without MTV, Clear Channel/Cumulus, and Newsweek features. It always has and always will.
Any commodity worth having will require some research. You don't just go buy a car based on the first ad you see. Some people will look into music, some won't. Not everyone is a music buff.
How do people find new bands to download? You have to find the band SOME way before you download -- there is no magical ouija-board keyboard that I know of that enters Prog Metal band names into your torrent search of choice when summoned. You can choose to type that name into a torrent site/p2p or into youtube. I personally go the torrent route since the vast majority of what I want to hear will not be on Spotify. If you're looking for the Century Media types, it will.
Any commodity worth having will require some research. You don't just go buy a car based on the first ad you see. Some people will look into music, some won't. Not everyone is a music buff.
How do people find new bands to download? You have to find the band SOME way before you download -- there is no magical ouija-board keyboard that I know of that enters Prog Metal band names into your torrent search of choice when summoned. You can choose to type that name into a torrent site/p2p or into youtube. I personally go the torrent route since the vast majority of what I want to hear will not be on Spotify. If you're looking for the Century Media types, it will.
Urban breed
Member
I prefer to see people grab my songs from a torrent where I don't see any money than that they use Spotify where I won't make enough to take my wife for dinner even after 100000 plays but someone else is making actual money.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
That's a bit of a stretch.
The people who download files illegally, already have a PC and an internet connection. Which means, they have access to YouTube, MySpace, Facebook and about a million other sites where listeners can sample music for free. These sites represent more of an option than what was available in the 80s, not less. In addition, listeners now have thousands of online discussion forums, review sites, and sources like Pandora to zero in on unknown artists they might enjoy. Again, way more options than we had in the 80s.
- Mar 1, 2004
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The almighty Urban has spoken....THREAD CLOSED! lol
Seriously though, I am guilty of downloading illegally, but I also own 13000 cds. If the product is available and I can get my hands on it, I'll buy it. Thats the reason why I bought 64 cd's at ProgPower this year. I guarantee you that 30 of them I downloaded previously, added them to my must buy list, and did exactly that. I will always support the bands that deserve my support, and the bands that dont, I probably don't have the torrent sitting here on my PC because I didn't like it in the first place.
The fact that the music industry has filed suit is exactly why the music industry was jacked in the 1st place...SHEER FUCKING GREED! They wouldn't lower cost on cd's that they were making 2000% on in the first place, people found other means, the industry went to shit, so now they sue the people that probably have already overspent 10's of thousands of dollars on their overpriced cd's. Fuck them! If they would have tried to work with the changing world maybe they would not have lost so much money when it all went wrong
Seriously though, I am guilty of downloading illegally, but I also own 13000 cds. If the product is available and I can get my hands on it, I'll buy it. Thats the reason why I bought 64 cd's at ProgPower this year. I guarantee you that 30 of them I downloaded previously, added them to my must buy list, and did exactly that. I will always support the bands that deserve my support, and the bands that dont, I probably don't have the torrent sitting here on my PC because I didn't like it in the first place.
The fact that the music industry has filed suit is exactly why the music industry was jacked in the 1st place...SHEER FUCKING GREED! They wouldn't lower cost on cd's that they were making 2000% on in the first place, people found other means, the industry went to shit, so now they sue the people that probably have already overspent 10's of thousands of dollars on their overpriced cd's. Fuck them! If they would have tried to work with the changing world maybe they would not have lost so much money when it all went wrong
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
I get where you're coming from, but I'm not sure this is completely fair. It's easy to demonize Big Business. Goat knows they typically deserve it. That said, how is prosecuting people who illegally obtain your product different than any retail establishment who hangs a sign, "Shoplifters will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law"?
I agree with you; greed has played a significant role in the demise of the recording industry. However, you can't blame them for going after the people they perceive are stealing from them.
DuchessOfDork
Member
- Feb 9, 2009
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That kind of thing I have no problem with. The problem is with people who download, like it, and never buy. The problem is that you can't tell the difference between people like you and people like them when it comes to downloading. All you see is the ten thousand people who downloaded so-and-so's new album without buying it.
- Mar 1, 2004
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I will agree with you to a degree...
My point is, what if they came after me or somebody like me, somebody who has supported the music and even if downloading it illegally, still bought it at some juncture?
Its pure and simple greed. The person that has overpaid for the product ultimately may be the one whom gets sues for $150,000 even though he has already paid tenfold.
I look at my cd collection and I want to kick myself, but then I continue to buy them. All the while, there is somebody with a hard drive with 20,000 cds who never intends to pay for it at all, and they get away with it.
It just sucks that there is that much greed involved
My point is, what if they came after me or somebody like me, somebody who has supported the music and even if downloading it illegally, still bought it at some juncture?
Its pure and simple greed. The person that has overpaid for the product ultimately may be the one whom gets sues for $150,000 even though he has already paid tenfold.
I look at my cd collection and I want to kick myself, but then I continue to buy them. All the while, there is somebody with a hard drive with 20,000 cds who never intends to pay for it at all, and they get away with it.
It just sucks that there is that much greed involved
Braxil
Member
I don't think enough people realize this about Spotify. If you use it and like it, fine, but if you think for one second it supports the artists you listen to, you need to do some research. The numbers Urban Breed posted aren't even exaggeration; I read about one artist who had their song listened to 50,000 times and got a check for $3 and change.
DuchessOfDork
Member
- Feb 9, 2009
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Yeah, but they're not looking at you and choosing to sue you based on your collection. Just based on the fact that you downloaded something for free. Nobody knows what people will do with those MP3s, it's the act of filesharing that gets you in trouble. It would be nice if they COULD figure out who downloads without buying and who doesn't, but how could they do that?
Personally, I don't see it as greed so much as saving your own ass. Record labels need money to produce the music you like. So do musicians. If people have the ability to steal, some people will, which costs musicians and labels money. No money, less (well produced) music. We're spoiled.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Perhaps this has been posted and I missed it. Do we know what the labels are making from Spotify?
Harvester
The Promoter
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
AngraRULES
Member
AMBR
Metal Grandma
I did. According to this post in the other thread, it looks like LAST FM looks like the better deal for artists.
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