Guess new Dream Theater drummer-win a prize.
- Thread starter mel_progson
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J-Dubya 777
It NEVER ends
J-Dubya 777
It NEVER ends
I haven't really been into DT since the KM and DS days, as their musical direction after that wasn't always to my taste (though I've always respected their musicianship and ability to make different sounding albums while still retaining the core DT sound). So I was pretty excited about the possibility of a new drummer bringing a different dynamic to the band (since Portnoy ruled the roost before), and how it could change things (my hope was back to a more song oriented approach).
With that said, my hopes of that are pretty much shot. I thought their choice for a new drummer was the guy who most resembled the old guy. Several of the other drummers were more exploratory and interesting, and could have been instrumental in helping DT reinvent themselves. I'll hold final judgment until I hear the new album of course, and although Mangini is a monster drummer, my previously elevated interest just dropped back off again.
I too am a fan of the "older" stuff, and obviously respect not only their success, but their musical talents as well.
eppst1
Member
I've been a fan of DT for a while, more or less their older stuff. Having said that - I did enjoy watching the vids and see the process on how they "interviewed" the drummers. Out of all of them, I thought Aquiles didn't do that great. He almost seemed unprepared (not sure if that is the right word) but he almost seemed right from the get go he didn't get the job. I was hoping for Marco, one for his background and 2 for his obvious look of having fun with what he was doing. The DT guys really seemed to enjoy playing with him also - bit of a surprise they didn't pick him. The Darkane guy was awesome also.
AngraRULES
Member
Purveyor Of Evil
Heavy Metal, INC.
I believe the DT hate comes from being at the so called "front" of the prog metal genre. Anyone in anything at the forefront of their given niche will always have a target on their back.
Valarien
Member
^this
And those doing the "hating" will have a fav prog metal band that is a clone or heavily influenced by DT. Go figure.
AeonicSlumber
srs
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I don't hate DT. They were actually one of my favorite bands for the longest time. But I'm definitely hating on their last 2 horrid albums and this whole drummer search. It's ridiculous. They seem like nice dudes but nice dudes who have allowed the fans to inflate their egos too high.
jem777az
Bozzman
I don't get all the dislike for Black Clouds & Silver Linings. IMO it's one of their best albums front to back. The Count of Tuscanny is arguably their best song ever. While I also enjoyed Systematic Chaos, I can understand why someone might not enjoy it. The only album of Dream Theater's that I really didn't enjoy save for a song or two is Octavarium.
AeonicSlumber
srs
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I thought Octavarium was their best since Scenes From A Memory, and was a unique direction for the band. They were really inspired by Muse and "modern" prog rock bands, and they threw their own sound into the mix. It was cool. I think they should've stuck with that. Black Clouds was too "epic" for its own good. It felt like a pointless and bloated wankfest. I also hated the production. Sounded way too fake and pro tooled. It just felt like they were trying TOO hard to combine their sound with modern metal and it just failed in my opinion. The Count Of Tuscany (what a horrible title, sounds like Olive Garden's rejected mascot idea) has cool moments and so does The Best of Times, but they are too bloated, and have really bad vocal melodies and lyrics.
AMBR
Metal Grandma
Well, yes and no. A band in the forefront of a genre will indeed be a target for more intense criticism and higher expectations. This also leads to bands in this position trying too hard to meet those expectations. They often feel they have to continuously push the envelope and sometimes they go too far and lose their direction and sense of rhythm.
This I mostly agree with. I sensed that "modern" prog rock influence and liked it.
This I agree with this almost completely. To me, this was the "have to push the envelope" dilemma resulting in an overdone product without clear identity or direction.
On this, I think we will have to agree to disagree...until we hear the next album, of course.
I think they need a guy who could not only play technical, but get them back into a good groove. A more exploratory drummer had the potential to drive them further down the path of more technical and disorienting. Don't read this to say I want them to be less prog. I want them to be more focused and a little more structured. They need a guy who could get their flow back in the recording studio as well as on stage. I think Mangini is that guy. I am not a DT hater. They were one of my very first loves in prog and helped me to truly appreciate the genre. That feeling has evolved into exasperation with music that I feel is disconnected, self indulgent and directionless. I have high hopes for the new era.
jem777az
Bozzman
That's exactly why I didn't like it. I generally don't care for prog rock, I much prefer prog metal or at least prog that leans toward the heavier side.
Not sure what you mean by pro tooled since practically everything nowadays is recorded with pro tools. If you mean not as organic sounding as you would like, then to each his own. I don't find it too polished or "digital" sounding at all. Aside from "A Nightmare To Remember" and "The Shattered Fortress" I don't sense any connections to modern metal at all. Train of Thought was their attempt to go the heavier route (and it's my favorite DT album BTW). I will agree that the Best Of Times has some pretty cheesy lyrics though. But I'll give Portnoy a pass on that one since it was written as a tribute to his dad who had recently passed away. What makes Dream Theater so great IMO is that they can have a complete wankfest as you call it and still maintain a sense of melody and direction for the most part.
I'm not going to speak for all the jaded Dream Theater fans here, but when you fall in love with a bands sound, and for me it was around Images and Words, and a band deviates heavily from what they used to do its kinda disappointing. I haven't been impressed by anything they've done since Train. In saying that I have to admit I held some kind of small hope that this whole drummer situation would bring about some kind of direction change that might get me interested again. This whole drawn out drummer search completely turned me off again. It was just tacky, and those videos they released had like a 'Some kind of Monster' Metallica vibe or something. Ugh.
To be honest, I do like the newer school of prog metal much more now. Pagan's Mind, Circus Maximus and Seventh Wonder. Three bands that all borrow from the DT sound. All these bands imo took what DT were doing, perfected it and put their own unique slant on it. DT dropped the ball, these bands picked it up and scored a whole shitload of touchdowns.
To be honest, I do like the newer school of prog metal much more now. Pagan's Mind, Circus Maximus and Seventh Wonder. Three bands that all borrow from the DT sound. All these bands imo took what DT were doing, perfected it and put their own unique slant on it. DT dropped the ball, these bands picked it up and scored a whole shitload of touchdowns.
AeonicSlumber
srs
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Alright. To me alot of bands that get called prog metal aren't even progressive. Alot of people think that high gain guitars and keyboard solos = prog metal -- I just don't get it.
The thing is, DT gets enough money to record albums that they could do it all live and analog. It's one thing when small bands with 5-10 k studio advances use pro tools, but when big bands like Metallica and the like put out albums that sound that digital, it pisses me off. It's such a massive waste of studio time. They may as well go to Bulb's house or something lol. I think Train Of Thought had one or two crappy songs, but as a whole I enjoyed it. It definitely did not sound as fake as the last 2 DT albums. I hate the thin robotic guitar sound (definitely sounds re-amped), the plastic sounding drum samples, the lack of humanity. I miss the big beefy tones on the past albums and the organic mixes where it doesn't sound over-edited and over quantized because that sort of technology didn't exist.
As for your last comment, I agree. Here is an example of them wanking with a great sense of melody and direction:
The guitar/keyboard trade off in the beginning -- classic Dream Theater. Always gives me goosebumps!
But the last few albums feel like a bunch of 12 minute songs just for the sake of it. "Hey, let's see how many notes we can squeeze in 12 minutes!!!" It's almost as if they literally decided to become what long-time DT haters made them out to be.
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jem777az
Bozzman
I agree that high gain guitars and keyboard solos doesn't make something prog metal. But I do tend to prefer heavier sounding music, that's just a personal preference.
Let's face it, in this day and age it's much more cost effective for bands to use pro tools. It just is. Recording analog to tape does have a certain magical quality to it, but it's just not efficient or cost effective. That's why so many bands have members that can live in different parts of the world and still record a decent album. Having the ability to email an MP3 of a guitar riff to another band member to add his part to is a wonderful thing IMO. I guess we'll agree to disagree because Petrucci's guitar tone on the last album was by far his best ever IMO.
AeonicSlumber
srs
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Ehhhh, I guess you didn't get what I was saying. DT records their albums in big ass pro analog studios dude. In fact, they are recording this new one in the same studio where they did Train Of Thought. They were the very LAST band in the entire history of bands to record at the Hit Factory studio in NYC which is where some of the biggest pop artists of all time recorded. The place subsequently closed down. Money isn't an issue for DT. They get very large advances to do albums, there is no need for them to keep cost effective because they sell records.
For smaller bands, yes it's paramount to keep cost effective. DT on the other hand will track their tunes at a really nice studio and then will probably have someone mix it with pro tools.... lol
The difference is pretty obvious:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga0vid7tgtE&feature=related[/ame]
Guitars sound huge, you can actually hear the bass. Everything breathes really nicely in the mix. Drums are sampled but not over-sampled.
Super thin guitar sound, which definitely sounds re-amped. Drums sound over-sampled. Everything sounds edited too tight. This probably would've been a way better song imo if it had the production of the first track.
Half of the problem if you ask me, is that DT has been engineering and mixing their last several records themselves. They really need to be hooked up with Terry Date (again) or Nick R.
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jem777az
Bozzman
Well I totally agree with you on the part that they should be hooked up with an outside producer instead of producing themselves. They could use another set of unbiased ears. But just because a band can afford to record analog to tape doesn't mean they should. Dream Theater is not making U2 or Metallica money so they should be tight with their money. Especially with the state of the music industry as it is.
The you tube clips are not indicative of how the albums really sound though. I just listened to the same two clips from the actual CDs on my studio monitors and yes the mix is totally different. The Train of Thought mix is much more in your face, but as far as the actual guitar tone I still think Petrucci's tone on the last album is far better.
AeonicSlumber
srs
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It's not their money man. It's the label's. And yeah of course, it's a giant no-no to overspend when the band cannot recoup the costs, but DT actually does this. Their last album charted in the top 10 man. They also have an extensive back catalog that continues to sell and move units that includes bootlegs, DVDs, etc. They do very well. No they don't make Metallica money, but each one of them is without a doubt, wealthy or well-off. They do really well on DT.
I remember seeing some of the numbers generated from their shows on the Octavarium tour-- these shows were grossing like 25-50 grand per night on ticket sales alone. And that was BEFORE charting in the top 10.
But yes, they are in a vast minority. Very few bands do as well as DT.
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