Jon Oliva finally admits that Damond Jiniya is out of the band

batmura

Sea of Tranquility
Nov 1, 2001
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www.seaoftranquility.org
Oh well.

Not that I didn't expect it, since they've held the kid for so long. I admire Damond for being so patient and never speaking against the band. Remember way back in 2001 when he replaced Zak, Jon and everyone else said Damond was the guy and he'd be on the next Sava album (which was due soon) blah blah blah.

A lot has happened since then. First the not-so-good parting ways with Jack Frost. However, even then, didn't Jon or anyone else admit that Damond would also be leaving. Soon enough, both Jon and Chris Caffery focused on solo discs, leaving the new kid stranded. Damond, on the other hand, toured a bit with a bunch of extreme metallers and did his own thing and all that. All the while, we were dying to hear the good news about the new Sava disc getting finally recorded with both Damond and Jon sharing the vocal duties, something Jon had never achieved with Zak during his 8 years with the band.

However, TSO and more solo gigs came up. Nobody believed in a new Savatage album anymore. People were talking about a 25th anniversary release coming out in 2007, which I assumed would be the final record of the band. Interestingly, in a recent interview with a Norwegian reporter on Oct 14, Jon has announced that Damond is no longer in the band and if this 25th anniversary thing ever happens they will ask Zak to come back to sing a couple of songs.

Well, I love Jon. But I am terribly disappointed in him.

Zak left at his own will. He wanted to leave. He wanted to spend time with his family and on his return he decided to take his own path. He formed CIIC, but much to my dismay, always depended on Jon and Caff's writing skills to complete his albums. And then a while ago, he spoke positively about willing to return to Sava if it came down to it.

Obviously no one gives a shit about Damond. He's just the new kid after all.

On the other hand, Jon also nicely badmouthed his 90's catalog, saying he had no idea about what The Wake of Magellan deals with, nor is he interested. He said he hated Paul's concept albums and wanted Poets and Madmen to be a non-concept but it got changed in the last minute. So all those people who claim Savatage is Jon are full of shit. Jon has basically no say in what gets done in Sava, unless Paul approves of it.

So hence why he always labels his solo material as "old school Savatage". I've always been apalled when he and some reviewers were comparing Jon Oliva's Pain to pre-HOTMK era Savatage. I love JOP, but to me, the album sounds nothing like the older Tage material. It's basically the same stuff Jon has done post-1995, except that the songs aren't related with each other. Obviously in the interview he also reveals why it's likened to older Sava stuff. Cause Jon wrote it all by himself and produced it, and the lyrics were also put down on paper by him. However, the music is still 90's to 2000's Sava. Whatever. I'm just rambling.

Savatage is still my favourite band, but I am more than disgusted by how things have been handled at the Sava camp. I kinda think Caff's reason for closing down the Sava boards was to get all those people on his own site with their attention glued to his solo album. Blah.

Savatage are over. Whether they release the anniversary disc or not, I highly doubt they are ever going to tour or record afterwards. After all, Jon has spoken: "Savatage is not a band anymore. It's not a priority. I'll do solo, Caff will do solo, and we'll do TSO together. No time for Sava."

How cool. :erk:
 
I'm annoyed that their SIDEPROJECT has taken precident. What have they done with all the money from TSO? Head to the studio for new Savatage? nope. Put out new material at all? nope. They bought more and more lasers for the TSO show.

Speaking of TSO, the sideproject that took over (even though it IS good), They've been talking about a Beethoven's tour for years, and never once came through on it. They've been talking about a new album of non-Christmas stuff (let's face it, its old), for years too, and that hasn't happened either. Too many side projects, too many solo projects, not enough teamwork. JOP and CIIC is all that's left I'm afraid. Too bad they sacrificed one of the greatest metal bands and likely next the greatest holiday rock for it.
 
Man, that's too bad. I saw Savatage back in 2001 with Damond, and the guy absolutely *owned* the stage - he had a very theatrical, commanding presence, and I was really looking forward to seeing him do some work with the band. I hope he'll re-emerge with a project worthy of his talent.
 
Who the fuck know's what's going on with this band anymore. I'm pretty sure Paul O. owns the rights to the band now, so it's his call. Jon seems to want to continue, Chris wants to continue, Johnny Lee and Jeff aren't doing anything, so what's stopping them. Paul is wrapped up in TSO and he has entirely to much control with Savatage. I respect what he has done for Sava in the past, but I think he should let Jon do what he wants with it now. It piisses me off, because I have been listening to them for around 20 years. Them being my favorite band of all time, I would love to see them continue. I think it's all music buisness bullshit if you ask me.:erk:
 
TSO pays the bills, the other projects do not, that's what it boils down to and they've admitted as much. When you got bills to pay, mortgages and whatnots you don't quit your job. The man lives in my town, granted a better development but it's a ston'es throw.

Remember, band or no band, theyre regular guys who play music for a LIVING. If they relied on Savatage and solo projects they might be mowing my lawn in their spare time. If TSO funds more projects and another Savatage album you can't really knock it.

If you're not Aerosmith or Bon Jovi and want to make a living in music you gotta do what you gotta do.
 
Does any longtime Savatage fan really think this band has ever been the same since Cris Oliva died and Jon stepped down from vocals? I used to call these guys my favorite, but COME ON. The Oliva brothers, Middleton, and Wacholz. That's Savatage. Close behind, Caffery gets my honorable mention, as does Al Pitrelli, both for their contributions in keeping this band relevant. Since then, they may as well have called it by another brand new name. Different players, different stage presence, and a major loss in consistency. I wish they would have hung it up a long time ago. I also wish Oliva's 'Dr. Butcher' album would have been recorded under the Savatage name, as I think it's the closest to the classic catalog anyone has mustered since 'Streets'.

My 2 cents.
 
mitchgx said:
Man, that's too bad. I saw Savatage back in 2001 with Damond, and the guy absolutely *owned* the stage - he had a very theatrical, commanding presence, and I was really looking forward to seeing him do some work with the band. I hope he'll re-emerge with a project worthy of his talent.

Hear, hear. He was also a nice guy in person.

I remember seeing them in Atlanta -- I think Glenn was also at that show...if I remember, his "Shadow Gallery will NEVER tour!" pronouncement was made there -- and a lot of old-school Savatage fans were leeery of 'the new kid.' When the lights came down and Damond stood at front of the stage, I'm sure I wasn't the only person thinking "WTF? Who is this gothy dude?"

And then Damond proceeded to totally own the stage, as you said. It was reallly cool how much he was into the music, even mouthing Jon's vocal parts verbatim when he wasn't on the mic, etc.

I'm very curious to know what he's been up to lately, and I'd be glad to support whatever's he doing.

...With one caveat: I saw his earlier (?) band Diet of Worms open for Christian Death (Mortiis and Godhead were also on the bill) many years ago now, and DoW were horrid -- probably the worst touring act I've ever seen. I still can't figure out why, since Damond is certainly no slouch when it comes to vocals and stage-presence. I'd say it was an off-night, but according to people on the tour, it wasn't. :(
 
Agreed, it's sad that this is the state Savatage is in now. From CC's comments, it seems like he really reallly wants to keep doing Savatage. How he doesn't care if it's only playing for one person, he wants to keep doing it.

However, Jon Oliva seems to be on the other end and is obsessed with his solo project (and doesn't seem to care about Savatage much). However, I think his solo album was pretty weak - some good songs, but probably a 7/10 tops overall. CC's was much better IMO. And comparing JOP to old Savatage? Um, I don't hear it.

Really, Paul O'Neil is a factor here, because there's some issue with management going on that's preventing it from really working out. O'Neil should give up Savatage and let the boys handle it and instead focus on TSO. I mean honestly, even once Savatage start recording the new album - Paul O'Neil could have it in the studio for 2 years.

Oliva said in the interview this is from that the new album is already written too. (I think 2001 it was done) That's f'in pathetic that it's not released
 
Funny that this thread would come up, because earlier today I was talking about how if Savatage had hung it up years ago, they would have gone out as legends and I would still consider them one of my favorite bands. I wish that they would have taken a different name when they started this concept album business. I don't hate concept albums per se, and it's hard to rag someone for trying to make the world a better place, but Savatage's concept albums were so...ponderous. Like the one about the crying gargoyle. I don't want to hear an album, no matter how well-intentioned, about a crying gargoyle. And I just plain hated "Poets & Madmen." The included postcard was a bit much for me as well. I had some hope for Jon Oliva's Pain, but it sounded like 90's Savatage to me, too.
 
The way I understand things is this: The reason why Jon's so gung-ho about the solo material rather than new Savatage material is because Paul O'Neill (the very guy who is reportedly responsible for most of what you guys don't like about Savatage these days) can't get his paws all over it. Poets had a lot of good stuff on it, and could have won much more respect as a non-concept disc, but, as Murat mentioned, the concept was thrown in hastily by Paul (and I think the song list was also changed as a result). I don't dislike Paul's musical and conceptual influence in general, but I think he should limit himself to messing around with TSO, and leave Jon's more "metal" pursuits alone.

I have to disagree with the majority here, and say that 'Tage Mahal DOES indeed sound more like classic Savatage than anything they've done in a long time -- it carries a huge Streets vibe, to my ears. I think it sounds a hell of a lot more like classic Savatage than Doctor Butcher did (with the exception of "The Altar" and "The Chair", which were total Dungeons throwback songs), and I can honestly say that I'm more looking forward to new JOP material than new Savatage material.
 
Creeps said:
TSO pays the bills, the other projects do not, that's what it boils down to and they've admitted as much. If TSO funds more projects and another Savatage album you can't really knock it.
I'll tell you why I'm knocking it: They spent the money they made on an ever more extravagant light show for TSO, NOT another Savatage album.

PS i'm gonna echo the boobage and say JOP was great, and if Sava is truly dead, then JOP is the next best thing. "People Say" is a badass track, and so was the title track of Wake of Magellan, and Commisar from Poets. Come on now, they've had great tracks, concept or not.
 
Silent Song said:
I'll tell you why I'm knocking it: They spent the money they made on an ever more extravagant light show for TSO, NOT another Savatage album.
Which only goes back to Creeps original point...because TSO is THE money maker. You invest in the money making interest. Sound business decision, like it or not. I know some have a hard time with the whole 'business' part of music business, but it is how these guys make a living. If you have one business interest that makes you money, and one that dosen't, you tend to the one that feeds your family and pays the bills...not the one that costs you financial resources.

booB said:
I have to disagree with the majority here, and say that 'Tage Mahal DOES indeed sound more like classic Savatage than anything they've done in a long time -- it carries a huge Streets vibe, to my ears.
Couldn't agree more. There is a lot of the older Sava' sound on 'Tage Mahal. I mean, how great was it to hear Doc's unmistakeable playing on No Escape...that is an old school Sava' song. There are influences going way back into the Sava' catalogue, all the way through to HOTMK, Gutter Ballet & definitely Streets.

If Jon does nothing more than continue on with his JOP project, fine by me. I love the 'Tage Mahal album and am fine with his direction. Just one man's opinion, though.:)
 
no no no you're likely missing my point. i'm annoyed that instead of contributing their earnings to music of any sort, they spent it all on novelty stage lighting to create a bigger spectacle each year and less music-oriented shows. They may has well have bought an elephant and dancing bears.
 
If a potential new Savatage album was to be anything like "Poets & Madmen," then I have to say: bring on a bigger and better light show.
 
Why does everyone seem to hate P&M so much? I mean it has some great numbers on it like Commissar, Morphine Child, Man in the Mirror, Surrender, and Awaken (which sounds like a Dr Butcher song).

It's no Streets yes, and it's pretty midtempo except for songs like Drive, but some people absolutely detest the album. I'm glad it's more guitar oriented vs Wake of Magellan which was 80% piano based. And Jon sings 100% on the album, something that hadn't happened since Streets.

I mean, you can tell there's a difference in Savatage now vs then when you listen to P&M and then get to the bonus track (Shotgun Innocence). Criss's playing added so much to their sound, and their songs were more raw and metal. However, I still like the sound they developed after his death - and think some people are simply afraid to admit that it's OK for Savatage to change their sound
 
Agreed 150% with Nightmare1z. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones who can enjoy Savatage's old AND new sound. There's no one else in metal who can do what Savatage does nearly as well as they do. It was true in the early years, and it's true now.
 
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and if someone gets something out of "Poets & Madmen," or "Dead Winter Dead," then it's cool. But I just didn't care for the "social consciousness" direction the band headed in (I can't listen to that last After Forever disc, either). And even if I could ignore the lyrics and postcard accessories, the music began to sound like a band coasting on fumes. I thought that much of "Wake of Magellan" sounded good, but "Dead Winter Dead" was largely forgettable (ironically, "Christmas Eve" excepted), and "Poets & Madmen" sounded like a band who had run out of ideas (a big disappointment to me, due to Jon's full-time involvement).

I wouldn't say that I dislike the new sound Savatage went in; I liked "Edge of Thorns" and "Handful of Chance," er, "Rain" ;) I even could tolerate "Dead Winter Dead," crying gargoyle and all, until it was obvious that rock operas about Big Things were to be the band's direction. I know that a band doesn't have to record the same classic albums over and over again, but this rock opera thing just ran into a dead end as far as I am concerned.

Now if they would write a rock opera about gorillas, I'd probably listen to it.
 
Well, in all fairness, Dead Winter Dead and Wake of Magellan is whar reeled me into Savatage to begin with, not HOTMK or Sirens...sorry. I like those albums, but I prefer the concept or newer Sava material. IMO, 90s era Savatage is more mature than the 80s stuff. Unfortunatly, I've yet to witness a full-blown Savatage show! The closest I've came, thanks to Glenn, is the WMD set at PPV. It was great to see, but I'm still hungry to see a Savatage complete with Zak, Johnny, Al, Jeff, Chris, and Mr. Oliva on keys!!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to be optimistic, and say it will happen again.

I agree with some of you though in saying that Paul should not have100% say with a new Savatage album. TSO is his baby, so let the guys have fun with Savatage and kick our asses with a new album! :)

I don't have a problem with the Poets album like so many others do. If they do another Savatage album, I think they should pay homage to Criss and make it a metal record though. Heck, bring Alex Skolnick back in the studio! He'll lay down some metal tracks!
 
booB said:
Agreed 150% with Nightmare1z. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones who can enjoy Savatage's old AND new sound. There's no one else in metal who can do what Savatage does nearly as well as they do. It was true in the early years, and it's true now.
...

PS: Alex Skolnick is a genius.