J. Golden
Heaven and Hell Records
It should not be to difficult, they pretty much sold out their ways to the Christian god like the rest of Europe. But if you ask those clowns that burn churches they would have you believe different.
LOL - The Jesus Metal Explosion.
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It should not be to difficult, they pretty much sold out their ways to the Christian god like the rest of Europe. But if you ask those clowns that burn churches they would have you believe different.
The vikings (a very small population of late Iron Age Scandinavia, I might add) really didn't mind Christianity at all. Why would they? They traded with Christians, they worked as soldiers or guards for Christians, they brought home innovations and technology pioneered by the church -- it's how they earned their money. Most vikings were very pragmatic. The modern picture of them (as used by most metal bands) is more like a caricature that ultimately stems from Swedish 19th century nationalism.
AeonicSlumber
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AeonicSlumber
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Absolutely the song I had in mind when I said that. However, the Dio era Sabbath was very much atheistically-minded (let's face it, Dio was an atheist) as well, and Iommi is/was a Catholic.
J. Golden
Heaven and Hell Records
AeonicSlumber
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You guys realize that none of this really matters right? There was a similar Christ-in-metal thread in the lounge a while back in which DorkyDuchess said:
And my response to this is my response to what you guys said. The meaning of things changes over time. Perception changes. I mean, this should be obvious right -- the cross is not exclusive to Christianity. I mean, there were crucifictions BEFORE Christ. The Swatstika goes back to Buddhism, etc.
Meaning changes. Your historical interpretation on the Christian treatment of the vikings has NOTHING to do with the contemporary idea that vikingism pre-dates Christianity and is thus a new symbol of wanting to go back to a time where Christian doctrine is not in the lives of the people who want it to go away. This is the foundation for most black metal. It's about symbolism, not about historical accuracy.
Actually, yes, I do. I just like smashing historical misconceptions, even when it doesn't add to the discussion at all and makes me look like a bit of a humorless dick. We all have our faults.
DuchessOfDork
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DuchessOfDork
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I always gotta remind myself that the only reason I play this music is because I love it.......................................and sometimes, I wish I didn't want to go and socialize and have a good time because it just hits me that the extent of backwards things that some people think is so incredibly deep rooted that I feel like there is just absolutely nothing I could ever do or say that would accomplish anything insofar as a positive change to that mindset................anyway, going to not be discouraged, got some of that off my chest..moving on..................
Hehe, no worries dude. Everyone's gonna have their own opinion. The point is that you (and I) are into metal because we love the way it sounds, regardless of what other people say or think.
AeonicSlumber
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Laugh at what? Human nature or the early bm movement? If the latter, why? I just explained to you that the meaning of ALL symbols changes overtime and that perception changes. Should I laugh at Christians because the cross existed symbollically before Christ and held a much different meaning? Or should I laugh at them because the idea of a "Christ" existed before Christ? No I think I won't do that, because I have respect for people, so I suggest you do the same and not be a hypocrite.
DuchessOfDork
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Ah, no. I laugh a little because it seems like it's okay to say "symbols change!" but, at the same time, it's somehow not okay to talk about the history of those symbols. At the same time, for some people, it's okay to say that Vikings are totally metal and brutal, but, for some reason, it's not okay to say the same thing about Christianity, despite the fact that history shows us otherwise.
But either way, we're both just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. Some of us have opinions on what is metal and what isn't, and if we don't agree, that's where it will end. We just have to respect eachother's opinions and learn to live with the fact that some people believe differently.
But either way, we're both just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. Some of us have opinions on what is metal and what isn't, and if we don't agree, that's where it will end. We just have to respect eachother's opinions and learn to live with the fact that some people believe differently.
AMBR
Metal Grandma
What is metal to me is the how the music itself is made, not the lyrical content. I always found that aspect of determining "what is metal" a little silly and a lot subjective.
Metal to me is how the instruments are used and the structure of the music. You can sing about anything with some crunching riffs and driving rhythms and it's all metal to me. Isn't it fun when metal bands take pop, country or other genres hit songs and "metalize" them? Well, I enjoy it.
We're getting all thematic here, but look at what some of our popular ProgPower bands have used for their lyrical content. Everything from war, to love, to social issues to The Count of Monte Cristo! It's the music, not the "story" in the lyrics that makes it metal.
DuchessOfDork
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Justin G
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AeonicSlumber
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1) Never said that you had to agree with me.
2) Never said that it's not okay to talk about history.
3) I've said many times in this thread that it's all a matter of opinion. That doesn't make it any less interesting/valid of a topic.
Just listened to that song up until the chorus (didn't watch the video). Felt I had a good enough idea of the song without having to listen further. Sounded pretty catchy, and music-wise, I would have guessed it's something at least half the people on this board would be into.
BenMech
student of the d'eh
just out of sheer curiosity, I looked at the video while the song played. One question:
Why am I never shocked that these bands are Lily White in both wonderbread blandness and (pardon me for the blatant racism) skin color?
I get the notion of Gospel coming from an underclass of ex-slaves and oppressed minorities. Sure, that's aspirational, and most times secretly coded.
But Clearly Northwestern European-derived (North, Central, and South) Americans have NOTHING to be oppressed about. In fact, they WERE the Oppressors! The whole thing looks and sounds phony, cynical, mean spirited, and trite. Which pretty much goes for any Evangelical christian anything of the 20th and 21st century.
Why am I never shocked that these bands are Lily White in both wonderbread blandness and (pardon me for the blatant racism) skin color?
I get the notion of Gospel coming from an underclass of ex-slaves and oppressed minorities. Sure, that's aspirational, and most times secretly coded.
But Clearly Northwestern European-derived (North, Central, and South) Americans have NOTHING to be oppressed about. In fact, they WERE the Oppressors! The whole thing looks and sounds phony, cynical, mean spirited, and trite. Which pretty much goes for any Evangelical christian anything of the 20th and 21st century.
dcowboys311
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DuchessOfDork
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Weeeeeell, that can certainly be debated. At one point, the Irish were considered white ni****s. But I see what you're saying, and in a way I agree. I think it's just the song in general. It's not a great song, but it's not because of what it's based on that makes it that way.
I mean.. how many bad death metal songs have we heard about blood and guts? Does that make all blood and guts songs bad? Certainly not!