I was wondering if the production of an album can actually sway you to like or dislike a cd? My opinion is if I like the songwriting but the production is poor due to the plain fact that a band has no money to have it done better it has NO IMPACT on whether or not I will listen (unless of course it is unlistenable like you cant make out what is being played). Perfect example: My fave Spheric Universe Experience cd is "Mental Torments" and that is their worst production but I love the songs. Another example..Clockwork "Surface Tension"..A killer underrated cd released on Sensory records over 10 years ago STILL blows me away and the production is weak. Even a lot of current releases have production issues that can be overlooked due to the greatness of the writing and playing. It seems the market will not have mediocre productions released (understandable from a retail point of view) unless the production is in some cases...flawless. can anyone shed some light?
Question in regards to production and it's impact...
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AeonicSlumber
srs
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For me it's got nothing to do with high or low quality production, but rather production that suits the band. Bands like Fen, Drudkh, and Wolves In The Throne Room need raw sounding records but Shining (a similar band), needs a very modern sound.
The only time when production actually turns me away from the CD is if A) it's overproduced and the record sounds overly edited and sampled, or B) if it's mastered way too hot to the point where it gives me a headache.
The only time when production actually turns me away from the CD is if A) it's overproduced and the record sounds overly edited and sampled, or B) if it's mastered way too hot to the point where it gives me a headache.
Production quality is huge for me. There are a lot of bands that write good songs but the sound is thin.
rms
Active Member
The latest Yngwie is unlistenable due to its production.
Production helps to make an album better or worse on a spectrum.
I tend to listen to the albums I enjoy most (what a surprise!), and thus its the ones with both good songs and it sounds good.
Production helps to make an album better or worse on a spectrum.
I tend to listen to the albums I enjoy most (what a surprise!), and thus its the ones with both good songs and it sounds good.
DreamNeonBlack
Member
Tricky answer for a tricky question. YES, bad production can have a big impact for me but good songwriting will probably win out.
Take Nevermore's Enemies of Reality. Terrible production but some great songs. I like that CD.
Bad production is also subjective. I hate quite a bit of mid/late 80's production due to the over use of HUGE reverb sounds. Drenching things in reverb didn't make it sound " like a stadium" to my ears. But there are so many great CD's from the time, with great songs so I can over look it.
Take Nevermore's Enemies of Reality. Terrible production but some great songs. I like that CD.
Bad production is also subjective. I hate quite a bit of mid/late 80's production due to the over use of HUGE reverb sounds. Drenching things in reverb didn't make it sound " like a stadium" to my ears. But there are so many great CD's from the time, with great songs so I can over look it.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
This.
And this.
Ultimately, the production should compliment the band's artistic vision. If a Nevermore CD sounds like it was recorded in a well, I'm not going to like it. If a Drudkh CD sounds like it was recorded in a well, it lends to the cold, distant sound the band is trying to achieve.
Zod
pyramazekeyboardist
Member
- Jan 4, 2004
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There is a lot of gray area there though as well, because people's perceptions of "flawless" production vary from person to person.
OK! Let me clarify what I mean! I don't mean production by choice! I mean if a band does not have means for the production (money or equipment) that the band SHOULD have should the cd be discriminated? NOT...the production that is fitting to the band...that is totally subjective I agree. I have bands send me cd's with a letter saying "We hope you like our music and can see past the production as we did not have the budget to get a great sound". And upon listening to the cd the songs are great but you can tell the budget was a factor..get what I'm saying clearer? 
Yes.
Katagory V's last album sounded absolutely terrible (based on the free songs I've heard). No way I'd buy it no matter the quality of the songs.
Here's a trick. If you don't have a lot of money, write music that doesn't require a lot of money to sound good.
Here's another trick. Almost every band can sound good enough for very little money. Its more about having the desire to get it right. If a label wants to sign such a band as you described, maybe the label should send the tracks off for remixing/mastering.
Katagory V's last album sounded absolutely terrible (based on the free songs I've heard). No way I'd buy it no matter the quality of the songs.
Here's a trick. If you don't have a lot of money, write music that doesn't require a lot of money to sound good.
Here's another trick. Almost every band can sound good enough for very little money. Its more about having the desire to get it right. If a label wants to sign such a band as you described, maybe the label should send the tracks off for remixing/mastering.
Yup. I am a production snob 100%. I dont care who the band is and what style it is....if the productions crap I dont give it the time of day.
I dont wanna hear any bullshit about money, and not having funds. Its 2009.......back in 1994 on a 500.00 budget me and my band went into the cheapest studio and recorded a 4 song demo that sounds better than a lot of the stuff I hear from all these wannabe "myspace bands".
The way I see it take some fucking PRIDE in your work especially when you are trying to SELL it. Today with pro tools, and all the computer software gadgets there simply isnt any excuse for shitty productions.
I am always baffled at how many friend requests I get from bands and the production is pure shit. *delete*
I dont wanna hear any bullshit about money, and not having funds. Its 2009.......back in 1994 on a 500.00 budget me and my band went into the cheapest studio and recorded a 4 song demo that sounds better than a lot of the stuff I hear from all these wannabe "myspace bands".
The way I see it take some fucking PRIDE in your work especially when you are trying to SELL it. Today with pro tools, and all the computer software gadgets there simply isnt any excuse for shitty productions.
I am always baffled at how many friend requests I get from bands and the production is pure shit. *delete*
Daybreaker
Red, Hot, and Heavy
I find myself loving with all my heart the most, records from the seventies such as Born To Run, Sin After Sin, Sad Wings Of Destiny, The River, and all of Jackson Brownes stuff in the seventies. I know that these aren't all "100%" live no overdubs, BUT there was no such thing as auto tuned ass ramma jamma trickery. I think its fucking sad, unacceptable, and a shame that these days there are a bunch of singers that go "Ok fix that up and let hear the playback," No, if you need it "fixed up" then that means another take! WOW WHAT A CONCEPT!
If I pop on a cd asnd it sounds like a big ol mess of fake, digitized, crap, then yeah its out the window. So ironically "too good" of production kills it for me.
Plus I didnt even go into the fakery of guitars and drums and everything else these days.
If I pop on a cd asnd it sounds like a big ol mess of fake, digitized, crap, then yeah its out the window. So ironically "too good" of production kills it for me.
Plus I didnt even go into the fakery of guitars and drums and everything else these days.
Purveyor Of Evil
Heavy Metal, INC.
I love clear, pristine production for ANY band. In this day and age of technology, there is no fucking reason in the world that any album should sound like shit. Also, I'm a huge stickler on the snare drum sound. To me, IMHO, I don't care how high the guitars are mixed because if the snare is inaudible, the production sounds thin and annoyingly flat. IMHO, the drum sound determines the "heaviness" of the recording.
AeonicSlumber
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MMMMM yeah dude, there's something about putting on a classic Floyd or Yes or Zeppelin vinyl from the 70s and sitting back with a beer. How those records still have such timeless productions is beyond human comprehension.
AeonicSlumber
srs
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Tell that to Darkthrone and Eyehategod. Those are some of the best sounding metal records ever because they are so filthy sounding. Production should suit the band's style.
Iced Dog
The Stormrider's Pooch
I hate production that sounds "raw", if I want raw I'll have a salad with no dressing or croutons (boring). Give me something that sounds sharp, crystal clear, dynamic, and powerful. I can't stand it when a good or great album is marred by weak production/mastering. Listening to good music should be enjoyable, but when I keep thinking how much better it could sound, that really detracts from the experience.
nomisofsiman
Member
A lot of people bringing up a lot of good points.
For me, the main thing is that all the instruments are at the right levels and mixed together. To me, it's vocals first and guitars second, then drums and bass...UNLESS the bass is supposed to be very prominent, i.e. Maiden. There are a number of albums I know where the mix of the instruments are equal and the vocals are way lower than they should. The biggest culprit and probably in my opinion, the worst sounding album of all time to me is AC/DC's "Fly on the Wall". If you're an AC/DC fan, you probably know what I'm talking about. The vocals are absolute SHIT!!!! When they remastered the disc, it sounded better but still SHIT!!! The songs sound decent, but it's just sooooo hard to tell when Brian Johnson sounds like he's in a completely different room/bunker from the rest of the band.
I also do agree when people say it depends on the type of band. Someone mentioned Darkthrone. It works for them having a raw sound, just like a lot of other gritty black metal bands, as well as some thrash. But...if for example Avantasia (as absurd as it sounds) had terrible production everyone would hate it to death, regardless of how good the songs are. Personally, this is why I don't mind Death Magnetic as most people tend to hate its production. Yes it clips but for any thrash band (including Metallica) it doesn't have to be perfect production.
With this being said to your original reason for this thread, I can listen to a band with great songs if the production is bad if A. It works for the type of band it is. B. If it's at least somewhat listenable and you can hear and understand all the parts, especially, vocals and guitar for me.
Like someone else said, if it's a complicated band that is very dynamic, they either need to save money or they need to be less adventurous on their record.
For me, the main thing is that all the instruments are at the right levels and mixed together. To me, it's vocals first and guitars second, then drums and bass...UNLESS the bass is supposed to be very prominent, i.e. Maiden. There are a number of albums I know where the mix of the instruments are equal and the vocals are way lower than they should. The biggest culprit and probably in my opinion, the worst sounding album of all time to me is AC/DC's "Fly on the Wall". If you're an AC/DC fan, you probably know what I'm talking about. The vocals are absolute SHIT!!!! When they remastered the disc, it sounded better but still SHIT!!! The songs sound decent, but it's just sooooo hard to tell when Brian Johnson sounds like he's in a completely different room/bunker from the rest of the band.
I also do agree when people say it depends on the type of band. Someone mentioned Darkthrone. It works for them having a raw sound, just like a lot of other gritty black metal bands, as well as some thrash. But...if for example Avantasia (as absurd as it sounds) had terrible production everyone would hate it to death, regardless of how good the songs are. Personally, this is why I don't mind Death Magnetic as most people tend to hate its production. Yes it clips but for any thrash band (including Metallica) it doesn't have to be perfect production.
With this being said to your original reason for this thread, I can listen to a band with great songs if the production is bad if A. It works for the type of band it is. B. If it's at least somewhat listenable and you can hear and understand all the parts, especially, vocals and guitar for me.
Like someone else said, if it's a complicated band that is very dynamic, they either need to save money or they need to be less adventurous on their record.
TribunalRecords
Record Label(s)/Vocalist
it's not really beyond comprehension those albums come from a time when production on albums cost $250,000-$500,000 or even more. and producers EARNED their money by getting good tones NATURALLY and not relying on some "plug-ins" and modern tricks.
sadly enough music has become so homogenized because of "stellar" and "flawless" production there is very little to separate bands today. everything sounds the same because they all use the same pro-tools plug-ins and drum samples.
just my opinion, but you can go through your current record collection and pick out the producers and hear the same tones on every CD they do. how does that help bands create something unique?
killswitch engage has had the SAME EXACT drum samples on all of their records. how boring is that?! hahaha.
AeonicSlumber
srs
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Yeah and this is the ironic part, because people in this thread are using the word "dynamic" to describe these modern, sterile as fuck productions when "dynamic" is the last thing they are! How can it be dynamic if producers are using the same drum samples and re-amping with the same guitar tones etc? These guys aren't even producers, just knob twiddlers. Some of them do a good job with it, but others not so much imo. That's why in more cases than not, I prefer rawer productions because they tend to sound more honest and legit. It ultimately depends on what the band is going for though. Sometimes fake mechanical shit sounds great like with Nevermore records.
