Warner absorbs Roadrunner Records EU and UK, people lose jobs, bands get pissed

[nailz]

words

I think you and TR being so involved in the market you can't see the forest through the trees here. I don't understand how you can't comprehend what I'm saying, so ultimately, fuck it.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

I think you and TR being so involved in the market you can't see the forest through the trees here. I don't understand how you can't comprehend what I'm saying, so ultimately, fuck it.

Either we're missing something because you're not articulating properly, or it's the polar opposite and you are the one who can't see what you're saying.

For the record, my personal beliefs on this issue are sandwiched somewhere between DC's and Matt's. I value DIY ethics but I also value a good A&R and a good manager and a good booking agent as well and that these things should be taken on a case by case basis, not shoehorned on every band. Shinedown would not be able to exist if it was a DIY band and Kvelertak probably wouldn't meet Sony's sales expectations to justify a multi million dollar deal.

 

[Metal_Camden]

and this happened where? hahaha, you and i both know it's nearly impossible. hahaha. "pipe dream"

Well that is my point, that it being a pipe dream is a huge problem hahaha

 

[AngraRULES]

Holy fuck, I had no idea Charlie Sheen posts around here!!!

 

[Metal_Camden]

What are your thoughts on the NEXT 20 years?

it seems that for a band like mine, 20 years from now, hard pressed CDs will be almost as Vinyls are today. collectors for the most part, but we listen to our digital copy of everything because its on our ***insert hand held smart phone or digital audio device***.

What is a record label without physical copies? How many other (legal) online downloads do people use besides iTunes, and at the growth of that and Apple, how much longer will the smallers be around? any band can put their stuff on iTunes by themselves and spend X amount of promotional cash on it.

Maybe music will just HAVE to be free in the future but fans instead of buying cds will throw money at the recording/touring funds of the bands they like to help them out. It sure is working sorta like that now, I mean we just had a recording fund and over a third of our *rather large* budget was covered by fan donations. Obscura fully funded a $14,000 record DIY by fan support. This could be a great thing to look at for the future... I know I am, why, because it worked!

Its a game of who can predict what and who decides to go for an Idea that will or will not work. IF it does, well then that person is way ahead of the game

 

[dcowboys311]

Well that is my point, that it being a pipe dream is a huge problem hahaha

It isn't and it happens all the time. Just not with these 'real distributors' who get your albums into stores. Why that is important since less and less people are buying music in stores and more and more music stores are shutting down, I do not know. Internet reigns supreme and there are so many joint labels/distros that do carry DIY bands and do act directly with bands it's not even funny. And not even just 'small' bands.

 

[dcowboys311]

Well, you keep mentioning record labels in statements bands being on labels but then pressing their own records. there are two paths and they are as follows.

1) Sign to record label, record label owns your music until contract expires. Bands tour and sell cds they buy from the record label at shows, but in return they get promotional budgets, video budgets, tour support, etc. A wealth of investment capital labels have for bands that they wouldn't normally have.

2) DIY Route where the bands fund everything themselves, press and distribute their own music. Pay for video budgets, tour support, ads campaigns, PR firms, etc.

Just to clarify your posts constantly mesh the two and there cannot be both. Even if the business model for the labels is "failing" they will not give up ownership of music if they are investing their capital.

You act as if these two models are the only two models in existence. They are not. There are many shades of grey along with the black and the white. In fact, pretty much the entire black and death metal underground does not operate this way.

 

[TribunalRecords]

You act as if these two models are the only two models in existence. They are not. There are many shades of grey along with the black and the white. In fact, pretty much the entire black and death metal underground does not operate this way.

i was simply trying to get him to clarify his point since it was confusing, mainly about ownership of the music never ending while record labels are around.

I know there is grey area, i have been doing this 13 years and i have a pretty vast knowledge of how my industry functions. i myself was a DIY label distributing my records from my apartment for the first 3 years of existence.

 

[TribunalRecords]

It isn't and it happens all the time. Just not with these 'real distributors' who get your albums into stores. Why that is important since less and less people are buying music in stores and more and more music stores are shutting down, I do not know. Internet reigns supreme and there are so many joint labels/distros that do carry DIY bands and do act directly with bands it's not even funny. And not even just 'small' bands.

What is one of the "big" bands in these joint label/distros, just curious where their product originates. Also, give me an example of what you are describing as distro as well I am sure I have bought from them. hahaha.

Also, stores are closing yes but stores are still open and opening worldwide. Distribution is important whether you are in Best Buy or FYE or not. You can only reach so many customers via the internet. Still plenty of people not buying music that way.

 

[dcowboys311]

i was simply trying to get him to clarify his point since it was confusing, mainly about ownership of the music never ending while record labels are around.

I know there is grey area, i have been doing this 13 years and i have a pretty vast knowledge of how my industry functions. i myself was a DIY label distributing my records from my apartment for the first 3 years of existence.

You might find it helpful to snoop around the 'extreme metal' underground and see how things tend to work. There's generally not much of a problem moving units as long as the quality is there and you'll probably pick up an idea or two, and find a cool new band while you're at it. No, they are generally not successful in the 'live off your music' sense but that has more to do with accessibility and lyrical content.

 

[dcowboys311]

What is one of the "big" bands in these joint label/distros, just curious where their product originates. Also, give me an example of what you are describing as distro as well I am sure I have bought from them. hahaha.

Also, stores are closing yes but stores are still open and opening worldwide. Distribution is important whether you are in Best Buy or FYE or not. You can only reach so many customers via the internet. Still plenty of people not buying music that way.

Inquisition (although they recently signed to Season of Mist, haven't done anything yet though, this was literally a month ago)

Hell's Headbangers and Nuclear War Now, for starters

 

[TribunalRecords]

Lol no. I searched for Elvenking and found a song called "woods of the elvenking". This was when napster was strictly P2P and you just browsed other people's shares and queued up what you wanted. There was no sales.

This is exactly what this whole thing started about with you and i. hahaha. I think you mean when napster was all about illegal file sharing. Good way to work in back into the discussion, buddy! So did you ever BUY those albums you found out about online or did you just download them illegally? hahahaha.

Proving my point for me with a fine example, thanks. hahaha.

 

[dcowboys311]

This is exactly what this whole thing started about with you and i. hahaha. I think you mean when napster was all about illegal file sharing. Good way to work in back into the discussion, buddy! So did you ever BUY those albums you found out about online or did you just download them illegally? hahahaha.

Proving my point for me with a fine example, thanks. hahaha.

If I remember correctly, nailz was a sponsor -- you know, one of those guys who writes a couple hundred over to G -- for Elvenking the year they played PP. So your condescension isn't super effective and is pretty unnecessary.

 

[TribunalRecords]

Inquisition (although they recently signed to Season of Mist, haven't done anything yet though, this was literally a month ago)

Hell's Headbangers and Nuclear War Now, for starters

I guess "big" is a relative term now too. hahaha.

I actually email HHB my wholesale list, but they don't seem to want to carry anything which i thought was hilarious because they carried the Dr. Living Dead on import, but now that I have released it they didn't want it so i figured they trade with High Roller Records whom i licensed the record from.

I am aware of some of these places, but it's not my goal to sell a few hundred copies on vinyl of my stuff. I want to sell my releases to as many people who would like to buy one.

 

[TribunalRecords]

If I remember correctly, nailz was a sponsor -- you know, one of those guys who writes a couple hundred over to G -- for Elvenking the year they played PP. So your condescension isn't super effective and is pretty unnecessary.

And the point is what? He paid a bunch of money because he likes them? my question is a valid one. he brought up napster and that he used the website to download P2P files. Did he eventually buy the CDs or not? Being their sponsor at PP is irrelevant to the discussion of file sharing.

 

[dcowboys311]

I guess "big" is a relative term now too. hahaha.

I actually email HHB my wholesale list, but they don't seem to want to carry anything which i thought was hilarious because they carried the Dr. Living Dead on import, but now that I have released it they didn't want it so i figured they trade with High Roller Records whom i licensed the record from.

I am aware of some of these places, but it's not my goal to sell a few hundred copies on vinyl of my stuff. I want to sell my releases to as many people who would like to buy one.

Inquisition was able to draw close to 100 people in Atlanta last December on about 4 days noticed. Last minute tour since the fuckup from Rites of Darkness screwed up something with their flights. Inquisition is probably the biggest band in American black metal. You can add Deceased, Destroyer 666, and Blasphemy to the list if you'd like. There's more where that came from.

You can't be too aware of those places if you think that they only sell a few hundred vinyl copies and that's it. They carry and sell more CDs than vinyl, tapes, and zines.

Edit: And there is a reason these labels are CONSTANTLY releasing new, high quality material. They don't overestimate demand and get stuck with piles and piles of records. It's a different business model and one that works very, very well.

 

[dcowboys311]

Out of curiosity, do you consider Manowar to be a successful metal band?

 

[TribunalRecords]

Inquisition was able to draw close to 100 people in Atlanta last December on about 4 days noticed. Last minute tour since the fuckup from Rites of Darkness screwed up something with their flights. Inquisition is probably the biggest band in American black metal. You can add Deceased, Destroyer 666, and Blasphemy to the list if you'd like. There's more where that came from.

You can't be too aware of those places if you think that they only sell a few hundred vinyl copies and that's it. They carry and sell more CDs than vinyl, tapes, and zines.

I was referring to the labels selling a few hundred copies, not the distros. Also, you work for these distros? i assume you are privy to how many units they are moving of any given release? Because you speak as if you do know.

Are you adding Deceased (King Fowley's band) to that list of American Black Metal bands? they have been around for ages and are in the same spot they started. however, they finally were given the accolades they deserve with a Decibel HoF nod to Fearless Undead Machines which is a great thrash album. but they aren't getting any bigger, plus i just bought their latest album in FYE here in greensboro.

Also a tiny tidbit of information most people don't know about me. i was a buyer for an independent record store in NC for 15 years, our metal section was a think of legend at this point. i was pretty aware of the kvlt black metal scene and how it worked. Necropolis and Relapse distros were pretty much the strongholds, but now that they are either gone or phasing out their distros the little guys like NWN are picking up the slack. kvlt black metal isn't a new thing, it's pretty much status quo for the genre. you have to dig to find it and the bands like it that way. so when they have no aspirations to get big or be popular you cannot really compare them to the regular business model within the industry of people who DO wish to sell as many records as possible and appeal to a wide array of fans.

 

[dcowboys311]

No, I do not work for them. However it's not really that hard to see X ALBUM PRESSED OUT OF 1000 UNITS -- SOLD OUT and people looking for it because it's unavailable from other distros, that 1000 were moved. But maybe I'm just dumb. Also, both HHR and NWN are labels AND distros. They are one in the same. And they are not unique.

Deceased was added to the list of bands who release through the small labels, sorry for the confusion. You can check the HHR site if you don't believe me. King is the man. For the record, neither Destroyer 666 nor Blasphemy are American.

And, agreed, you can't compare it to the other models -- because it is DIFFERENT than the other models. Different and it WORKS. Nobody cries about not moving albums because they get moved. Plus, you really can't compare the way things were 15 years ago to the way things are today. If things were the same, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

 

[TribunalRecords]

Edit: And there is a reason these labels are CONSTANTLY releasing new, high quality material. They don't overestimate demand and get stuck with piles and piles of records. It's a different business model and one that works very, very well.

12 new releases planned for Divebomb Records so far in 2012. 15 in 2010. i roll through new releases as well, but i just don't limit my pressings. smallest run you can do of cds is 500, but i start with 1000. i gauge my represses on how quickly something sells, not press a bunch and sit on them. Uncle Slam Say Uncle sold 1,000 units in 6 weeks, so we pressed more. Same with Casanova (but in 8 weeks). Cro-Mags too, but since John Joseph decided to be a dick i deleted the record after the first 1000 sold.

My business model is the same as any small label, press a limited run and press more if need be.