AngraRULES
Member
I am trying to understand why you were referring to back in the 80s only, though... maybe that's what's missing for us to understand each other? lol
Manowar U.S. tour dates
- Thread starter Harvester
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I am trying to understand why you were referring to back in the 80s only, though... maybe that's what's missing for us to understand each other? lol
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
When I think of bands who began in the 80s, who were big commercial successes, DT doesn't come to mind. DT always seemed like one of those bands on the precipice, who never went to that next level. However, much like Manowar, they've enjoyed a very nice career, largely because of an extremely loyal and dedicated fan base.
AeonicSlumber
srs
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But Queensryche was ALSO commercially successful, so what's the point? The difference is that Queensryche is currently unsuccessful after a decade and a half of declining sales while DT is still in the top 10 with nearly ever release and captured a market of younger adolescent kids, which Queensryche could never do anymore.
And getting into 'what constitutes a measure of success' is a redundant point. Nobody is saying success or failure have quantifiable lines in the sand - but if you're going to say Dream Theater failed commercially, I'm going to challenge that opinion and disagree.
AeonicSlumber
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In the 80's, those tours could sell for 10 bucks a ticket and fill 10, 15, 20 k seat arenas and the band could make what it feels it needs to make. Today, those bands play to 3/4 of that number or maybe even less in some cases and need to charge more to compensate the "loss" in fans.
There are of course, other factors too - such as inflation, the advent of homeland security requiring all this visa bullshit, etc. Not to mention the simplest explanation - AC/DC can now charge $100 a ticket because they are AC/DC and people are still going to show up regardless of price as long as supply and demand are in equilibrium.
SF Metal Man
Member
Exactly, that is why it is silly saying "Did _____ charge $75/ticket at the peak of their career success?" Nobody did - Times have changed, and prices for bands that think they can get more have gone up. Personally, I think bands like Saxon and UFO could up their ticket prices without hurting their attendance. I think most people willing to pay $20 for a ticket to see Saxon would also be willing to pay $32. Even for bands that don't draw that well might not be taking such a bath if they charged a bit more. Felt bad for Crashdiet drawing small crowds with $10 tickets. I don't think that charging an extra $8 would have hurt the draw, but it might have slowed the bleeding a little. Maybe I'm wrong, but at least for me I go to a lot of concerts and when the expensive big Rush, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden shows come around I feel no obligation to buy the expensive seats up front and would rather go to 3 additional clubs shows with the savings. Someone who only goes to 2 or 3 concerts a year might have a different perspective and be more willing to fork out $200 for an up front ticket, but those people probably aren't going to the club shows anyway. Manowar really is pushing it at $75, but they sold a bunch of tickets in Chicago at that price. We'll have to see how they do everywhere else.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
As you point out, I think we're merely debating semantics at this point. The point I was trying to make, and to some extent it's colored by the era I grew up in, is Dream Theater never broke through to that next level and headlined big arenas. In my mind, if you were the opening band on an arena tour, you had one more level to go to reach that top tier. Granted, that perspective is antiquated, given not only the state of the genre, but the state of the industry.But Queensryche was ALSO commercially successful, so what's the point? The difference is that Queensryche is currently unsuccessful after a decade and a half of declining sales while DT is still in the top 10 with nearly ever release and captured a market of younger adolescent kids, which Queensryche could never do anymore.
And getting into 'what constitutes a measure of success' is a redundant point. Nobody is saying success or failure have quantifiable lines in the sand - but if you're going to say Dream Theater failed commercially, I'm going to challenge that opinion and disagree.
The other point in my Monowar/Dream Theater analogy, that I was just flat out wrong on, was DT's timeline. I would have sworn that Images and Words came out in 1988 or thereabouts. I suspect that's based on the fact that the first time I heard "Pull me Under" it was on MTV. So I filed it under the 80s. Ultimately, I blame James LaBrie for this. Had he been a better singer, I would have paid closer attention to Dream Theater, and I wouldn't have been wrong.
AeonicSlumber
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General Zod
Ruler of Australia
LOL. Well played Sir."Monowar" - sounds like the name of your future column about headphones in Engadget.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Exactly....
Same reason Manowar can charge $75 a ticket........
What's the problem here, other than you and Milton simply don't like MANOWAR?????
AngraRULES
Member
Jasonic
Doom On!
Hey, I have no stake in this, other than as a fan........
You are trying to make claims that the band is not valid in charging this much.
The turnouts in both Chicago and MN say otherwise.
Therefore, the market can bear the hefty price tag.
AeonicSlumber
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Into Glory Ride and Battle Hymns are among my favorite 80's metal albums.
PromisedLand
Master of Corgis
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If Manowar actually toured North America on a regular basis, that $75 price tag probably wouldn't hold up. If they toured here every year or two years, can you see many people besides the hardcore fans (the ones who constantly use the words Hail and Kill) more than $25 or $30 a ticket?
Kings of Metal was one of my favorite albums during my college years in the 80s, but $200 for 2 tickets, knowing that they're playing only 14 songs with no support acts, is not a good value for me.
Guns n' Roses did a similar tour a couple of years ago, playing mostly House of Blues venues and some theaters, where they were the only band and charged $135 a ticket. However, they came out and played for 3 hours and did close to 30 songs. A performance like that would make the ticket price worth it.
Kings of Metal was one of my favorite albums during my college years in the 80s, but $200 for 2 tickets, knowing that they're playing only 14 songs with no support acts, is not a good value for me.
Guns n' Roses did a similar tour a couple of years ago, playing mostly House of Blues venues and some theaters, where they were the only band and charged $135 a ticket. However, they came out and played for 3 hours and did close to 30 songs. A performance like that would make the ticket price worth it.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Good for you.
Those are actually some of my least fav Manowar albums, to be honest.....
Kings of Metal has always been my all time fav album of theirs.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Funny you bring up Guns.......
I won a pair of tickets at work to see them on their last tour.
I was always indifferent towards them ever since the beginning.
Their songs were just fine I suppose, but their whole image and douchebag antics turned me off from really ever caring about them.
That being said, I gained a ton of respect for Axl after seeing them live.
It was a great show and very long.
Manowar has kind of become the same thing though, but moreso overseas than in the states.
I agree 100%. For that price, they should be producing a live show up to Euro festival quality that they have become known for.
Well, it's a free country.
Those who want to go can, and those who don't can sit at home and bitch about it. Let's be honest. If Manowar charged half the price people would still be bitching about Manowar!!!!
I don't think people would complain about lower ticket prices considering the high ticket prices are their complaints. I haven't seen the show but I agree $75 for that short a show with no opening band is just ridiculous.
PromisedLand
Master of Corgis
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He meant that Manowar's fans and non-fans are very divisive and that lots of people like to bitch and moan about them for any reason.
Jasonic
Doom On!
He meant that Manowar's fans and non-fans are very divisive and that lots of people like to bitch and moan about them for any reason.
Frank wins a cookie!!!!!!
nomisofsiman
Member
Maybe less complaints but people would still complain about the time length. Let's face it if bands like Blind Guardian or Iced Earth played at their current price and only played around 75 minutes, people would go nuts!
Jasonic
Doom On!
Manowar's been one of metal's most polarizing band long before the majority of internet trolls have been hating on them. They didn't care then and they don't care now......
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