Some cool tunes from 2010

[dcowboys311]

Does anyone actually say that? If so, then yes, that's pretty ridiculous. Not because industries always change, but because it was TEN years ago that Metallica sued Napster. So five years ago was already well into the "dark days". If downloading-for-free was truly killing the music industry, then the music industry would have been dead years ago. Instead, there's still an overwhelming amount of new music being produced and marketed, which tells me the industry is still very much alive. Now, maybe the industry only continues *because* of its successful attempts to fight/stop downloading-for-free, and its attempts to adapt to the new market conditions.



I think it's unfair to assume that people or the industry can only do one of those things at a time. In fact, complaining ("educating") *while* adapting is probably the most sensible two-pronged approach to achieve survival, and that's clearly what the industry has been doing. But there's also only so much "adapting" that can be done. It's not like there's some brilliant solution out there to make money in the face of downloading-for-free that the record companies are just ignoring because they prefer to bitch at you instead.

Neil

5 years, 10 years, same thing. Wasn't directly quoting any one person -- just giving the general summary of what I've seen over the years.

 

[General Zod]

I know if I were to download music, it would be very hard for me to get the motivation to then buy the disc and I don't feel right.

It's interesting... when something moves to my "buy list", I want it immediately. I actually become quite annoyed when I can't find it, even though I already have the actual music. I suspect it speaks to my collector mentality... and possibly to some minimal level of OCD.

 

[Diabolik]

It's interesting... when something moves to my "buy list", I want it immediately. I actually become quite annoyed when I can't find it, even though I already have the actual music. I suspect it speaks to my collector mentality... and possibly to some minimal level of OCD.

if something peaks my interest I want it immediately. I am always on different sites for ordering stuff. If I hear part of a song I like by a band. I will order the CD. I have only been burned a few times by it not being that good. More so on getting a whole bands discography. Stuff like early Grand Magus and some of the 90's Tygers of Pan Tang stuff are something I will listen to once and probably never go back too.

 

[Cheiron]

The problems with downloading, as I see them are:

-Owner losing control over product
-How many listens to decide if we want to purchase (if owner decided, then it would be easier)
-If the distribution costs of an album are effectively $0, then what is the real cost of the album?
-If music is a commodity, a service industry, then how much should we pay?


Other questions:
-How does anybody know how much they would have made, if it weren't for downloading?
-If the cost of recording, mastering, and distributing music is doing down, why are CD prices going up?
-Why are popular bands albums cheaper to buy than shitty bands?
-Why does music cost any money to buy?
-Album art work... really? Why do so anymore if your CDs don't sit on many store shelves?

 

[TribunalRecords]

It's interesting... when something moves to my "buy list", I want it immediately. I actually become quite annoyed when I can't find it, even though I already have the actual music. I suspect it speaks to my collector mentality... and possibly to some minimal level of OCD.

you too? totally happens to me as well.

 

[nomisofsiman]

The problems with downloading, as I see them are:

-Owner losing control over product
-How many listens to decide if we want to purchase (if owner decided, then it would be easier)
-If the distribution costs of an album are effectively $0, then what is the real cost of the album?
-If music is a commodity, a service industry, then how much should we pay?


Other questions:
-How does anybody know how much they would have made, if it weren't for downloading?
-If the cost of recording, mastering, and distributing music is doing down, why are CD prices going up?
-Why are popular bands albums cheaper to buy than shitty bands?
-Why does music cost any money to buy?
-Album art work... really? Why do so anymore if your CDs don't sit on many store shelves?

I'll answer some of these. I don't think there is a way to fully guage how much downloading is affecting. People download from an array of illegal sites, not to mention itunes and such.

CD prices are going up because companies are stupid. They think if they're selling less, they can jack up the price and sell as many, thus giving them a better profit. This isn't true though as it usually kills companies. I used to work at FYE and I still don't understand why people buy there. They overprice things to an absurd amount, and then they try to sell you a discount card for these items that are already overpriced.

I don't know what you're really asking here. Popular and shitty can be the same thing. As far as why popular bands are cheaper though, it's because more people will buy them and those cds usually are on sale. A cd that is only going to get a handful of sales, they most likely won't put on sale the first week of release.

I can't believe you're even questioning why people should buy music. While you're at it, why do we buy books, movies, etc. It's a form of entertainment and that costs money.

I still enjoy album artwork. I think it's cool, but I think this is mostly for our niche. However, an album with just a blank cd doesn't catch as many people's interest as one with artwork. You do make a good point though. If album sales are hurting, maybe some artists should do away with artwork and lower the cost to see what happens.

 

[TribunalRecords]

THIS IS ANOTHER THING!!
At least in the punk/hardcore world, every band with a demo/7'' thinks their ready for tour. They're not. They suck and can't put on a good show and then whine when they draw 2 people in Boise, Idaho.

The market's not only oversaturated with new albums but tours. People have lives and can't come out to shows 5 nights a week. Less touring might actually result in more profit since the tours are more exclusive.

Obviously this doesn't apply to bands like Metallica.

i couldn't agree with you more on this subject and those "myspace" bands are one of the main sources of the problem.

because of the internet everyone thinks they can be a band and just get out there and like you said FLOOD the market for REAL bands. you have kids that are like 14 and 15 and out touring the country. i signed a band called ANIMOSITY when the drummer was 15, but they seriously were leagues ahead of any teenagers at the time i had heard playing extreme music.

this is why my band only toured in the summer months because a) i have a job and b) we just did it for fun, but have sold enough records that we have a fan base who actually remember us each year and want to come party and hang out during KWD's summer vacation. we still seem to be an exception to the scene's norms.

also when i talk about downloading hurting bands its not EVER in reference to the myspace "bands" it's in reference to legitimate bands. plus newer bands today haven't earned anyone's loyalty releasing a demo or 7" and thinking they are making a true difference by touring. they are just getting out there and delaying the inevitable of having to get a job or go to college. it explains the high rate of member turnover in bands today.

 

[dcowboys311]

I can't believe you're even questioning why people should buy music. While you're at it, why do we buy books, movies, etc. It's a form of entertainment and that costs money.

You can get books for a pretty decent amount of time with absolutely no quality loss, censorship, or printing over the pages saying "THIS IS A PROMOTIONAL COPY" from these things called libraries.

With Netflix, you can have any single movie you want for a low, flat rate -- again, with absolutely no quality loss -- per month.

Where's the alternative for music?

 

[skyrefuge]

With Netflix, you can have any single movie you want for a low, flat rate -- again, with absolutely no quality loss -- per month.

Where's the alternative for music?

http://www.rhapsody.com "All the music you want. Just 10 bucks a month."
http://www.spotify.com All the music you want, free (though not in the US)
http://www.pandora.com The type of music you want, free.
http://www.lala.com All the music you want, once, for free (before Apple killed 'em)

So again, it's not like the music industry hasn't tried different things.

About libraries, first, they aren't free (I pay about $200 a year for mine), and most have music and movies in addition to books.

Neil

 

[Diabolik]

also when i talk about downloading hurting bands its not EVER in reference to the myspace "bands" it's in reference to legitimate bands. plus newer bands today haven't earned anyone's loyalty releasing a demo or 7" and thinking they are making a true difference by touring. they are just getting out there and delaying the inevitable of having to get a job or go to college. it explains the high rate of member turnover in bands today.

this is very true. Look how many bands suddenly become a flavor of the month and then break up a year or so later. Remember "Beyond the Embrace" and other bands with all younger members. You are right how there are a flood of bands kind of clogging up stuff. About 80% of these bands have such a short life span it is crazy. Just in the local scenes it is amazing to see some bands play all the time. Then months later they are gone.

 

[Sir Exar Kun]

You are right how there are a flood of bands kind of clogging up stuff. About 80% of these bands have such a short life span it is crazy. Just in the local scenes it is amazing to see some bands play all the time. Then months later they are gone.

Personally, I would question that this is really anything new, or just that the EXPOSURE for these bands is now so much easier than it used to be. Before the internet, you had to work your ASS off to get any kind of modest exposure; nowadays, anyone can set up a MySpace page, or a banner ad....

 

[Dolamite S. Biffle]

. Hell, I don't have the money.

This is why I download music, I have no savings and live "pay check to pay check". If I dont download it I will probably never hear it.

 

[Diabolik]

This is why I download music, I have no savings and live "pay check to pay check". If I dont download it I will probably never hear it.

really? that is a bad excuse for pretty much ripping off bands you like. For my spending money I just budget myself carefully. I dont buy things I dont need and am always careful with what I buy. It is funny when people say they have no money but they are out drinking and smoking. Get a second side job to cover your hobbies.

 

[nomisofsiman]

This is why I download music, I have no savings and live "pay check to pay check". If I dont download it I will probably never hear it.

Sorry. Not an excuse. I feel your pain in not having enough money as it is a tough economy at the moment, but on that same note, would you have a meal at a restaurant and then leave without paying anything? I didn't think so.

 

[TribunalRecords]

Personally, I would question that this is really anything new, or just that the EXPOSURE for these bands is now so much easier than it used to be. Before the internet, you had to work your ASS off to get any kind of modest exposure; nowadays, anyone can set up a MySpace page, or a banner ad....

it's definitely not a new concept, but in today's market there are far more bands exponentially speaking than back in the 80's. plus bands in the 80's actually had to know how to play their instruments or they wouldn't get shows and fans wouldn't come. it's just totally different now.

coming from a guy who has played with possibly some of the WORST local bands across the country for the last 4 years there are far too many "bands" actually calling themselves bands that shouldn't be.

but i try and look at it positively sometimes and say at least they are learning to play an instrument and challenging themselves that way.

 

[Dolamite S. Biffle]

Maybe a bad one, but its mine

 

[TribunalRecords]

-If the cost of recording, mastering, and distributing music is doing down, why are CD prices going up?

Who said it was going down? Good producers aren't cheap. If you are referring to all the bands creating their own studios and self-producing their albums then i could see that argument (sort of), but at the same time they had to spend the money and take time out of their lives to learn recording programs. and if you have never messed with pro-tools this is not something you can just "pick up on the fly" and start recording bands.

-Why are popular bands albums cheaper to buy than shitty bands?

Because popular bands are going to sell more records out of the gate therefore the overall album expenses can be broken down over 10,000-15,000 units rather than 1,000 units. simple economics.

-Why does music cost any money to buy?

Because is has not only monetary costs to create, but it also has value to the person creating it in their time in writing the music and lyrics, etc.

-Album art work... really? Why do so anymore if your CDs don't sit on many store shelves?

Because it is "ART" why do people paint anymore if their art is never to be hung on a wall? because its creative outlet for many people and some people enjoy looking at and creating art for their fans. also, sometimes pictures help to tell the story of any album.

 

[Jasonic]

I agree 100% with whoever it was now that said the market is oversaturated. What happened to the days where bands would spend sometimes almost 5 to 10 years practicing, writing, and gigging locally building a fanbase before even considering approaching a record label? Now there are bands headlining tours who haven't been around for more than 3 years. It's insane.

I suppose with technology, it's cheaper to just self release a CD than do a demo or 7" record.

Dolamite - You have some major ballz admitting that on a forum, though at least you are honest about it.

 

[TribunalRecords]

Dolamite - You have some major ballz admitting that on a forum, though at least you are honest about it.

he is being honest with himself and that is the first step to recovery.

however i did see in his signature he is a sponsor of Nocturnal Rites. now, i am completely unfamiliar with sponsorship of bands, but for someone who claims to be broke and living paycheck to paycheck would sponsoring a band be a smart move, financially speaking?

i guess its a question of where one choosing to "invest" their money, but just because you don't have money for music doesn't mean you are entitled to it.

i have never really been sure where this "entitlement" attitude has come from over the years in regards to music industry, but it's the ultimate culprit.

 

[Jasonic]

I don't know Dolamite personally, but from reading his posts over the years, he is more into the social aspect of the "scene" than anything else. Not saying it's 100% a bad thing, as long as he pays to get into the shows he goes to. Certainly paying to get into a gig is supporting a band, even if you don't purchase their CDs.

He lost major points with me in the fact that he went to the KC metal fest a couple years ago and couldn't tell me a lick about Manilla Road's set since he was too busy butt kissing the guys from Twelfth Gate. Talk about hanging out with super stars!!!