Evolution in Metal

Jan 14, 2007
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Fort Collins, CO
I was rambling in the Death Metal thread about how far the genre has come, so I'll repost what I said there before going on.

Listening to this album (the new Vital Remains) today got me to thinking about just how much death metal has evolved throughout it's twenty-odd years existence. Though Morbid Angel's early works were extraordinarily ahead of their time, particularly in retrospect, the likes of Deicide, Obituary, pre-Human Death and the Stockholm bands were deceptively simple. Entombed, Dismember, and Unleashed, for example, all Swedes, took a great deal of influence from hardcore, especially the d-beating, Scandinavian strand: the rhythms they employed were lifted straight from Anti-Cimex and Discharge, tweaked here and there for added weight and metalosity (my word, trademarked me, 2007). No wonder they were possessed of such sheer, unbridled energy. Even the American bands did it (think Obituary and Scream Bloody Gore) and I don't think it was until Suffocation released Effigy of the Forgotten in '91 that death metal really started to become blazingly and flatteningly technical. Today, death metal is easily one of the single most complex forms of music being played anywhere in the world; the Vital Remains album I just talked about, not to mention the recent work of bands like Nile and even Cannibal Corpse, is prime evidence. I mean, fuck, death metal, which began much like punk in regard to its ethos of fastest, loudest, most extreme has actually evolved (who woulda thunk it?) to the extent that it now may lay claim to some of metal's, and indeed music's, most talented virtuosos. Today, death metal incorporates classical and jazz influences (though the case could be made for jazz's presence as far back as Atheist in '91), and even melody and hooks and sophistication. That's a far cry from Slowly We Rot and Left Hand Path, both perennial favorites of mine.

Then there's black metal, which started out inconspicuously enough with the thrash- and punk-flavored likes of Bathory, Hellhammer, and Sodom. The beauty of black metal's second wave, as I've described extensively elsewhere, was that it was the first subgenre to incorporate ambient/atmospheric elements (Mayhem, Immortal, Ulver) and, apart from a few exceptions in death and doom metal, to look outside the confines of metal and punk/hardcore (from which metal inevitably took impetus) and draw influence from musics which were, at first glance, a far cry from metal (Burzum, Emperor). Some bands, on the other hand, adopted the outlook of "progression of regression," (Darkthrone) that of brilliantly and completely reinterpreting and reinvigorating the classics and understatedly calling it blatant ripping off (not the other way around). Now, you find innovative bands like Deathspell Omega, Blut Aus Nord, Drudkh, and Negura Bunget, who, in the grand tradition of generations past, have warped the boundaries of metal beyond the point of recognition.

I'll stop and let someone else expound on the likes of grindcore and doom. I feel like thrash has little relevance here since most of the purveyors thereof are either relics from the 80s (Destruction, Sodom, Kreator), are playing something not entirely or not at all thrash (Slayer, Metallica), or are rehashing the same old shit (Municipal Waste).
 
to me grindcore started with American hardcore bands like Siege and Deep Wound, and crust anarcho punk bands like Crass and Flux Of Pink Indians. the fusion of two by English punk bands like Napalm Death and Heresy gave rise to what is now considered today as grindcore. grindcore can range anywhere from the crusty exploits of Nasum and Phobia to the gore oriented likes of Carcass and Dead Infection to "fast hardcore" powerviolence like Spazz and Infest to even belligerent noise by likes of bands like 7 Minutes Of Nausea and Anal Cunt.
 
Anal Cunt is absolutely belligerent noise. But in regard to grind, think about how even it has come. Listen to Misery Index, for example (if you consider them grind - I do), or Nasum, like you mentioned and who are fucking great. There's even grindcore-esque death metal, like Cryptopsy. It's just so much more complex and structured than the likes of Napalm Death and "You Suffer."

What I find interesting in grind is, and we may or may not be talking about grindcore anymore here, the evolutionary path that began with the first Razorback Records bands like Ghoul, Machetazo, and Gruesome Stuff Relish. I really have a hard time calling that stuff grind as of late, but hell, they practically started a whole other sub-subgenre, the cartoony, thrashy, fake-blood-soaked music that I've heard called "happy grind." What do you think about that?

Good call on the Dead Infection drop - love them.
 
I think if you look at Napalm's discography you'll see in them how grindcore has progressed, from ultra simplistic (you suffer) to near death metal like (suffer the children), etc
 
They switched from grindcore to death metal to death/grind. Fool.


Really is that what they did?? Excuse me, you seem to know everything else metal so why not this also. They were never death metal you twit, and I know you hate the technical aspects of metal like production and all but they wanted a harsher sound so they recorded with Burns at Morrisound. How were they trying to be a death band? Growling? Blast beats? Down tuned guitars? All of these were and still are Napalm
 
ND were always either grind or deathgrind, Rabid. Pretty sure. They never went full-on DM as far as I understand...

Goregrind would be the further extension of grindcore inspired primarily by Carcass and often proliferated on labels like Obscene, Razorback, and American Line.
 
Too bad you're wrong, considering there are about 50 bands I can list playing goregrind who sound somewhere in the middle of death metal and grind with a "gross" or disturbing sound.
 
Why cant a band just have a grind sound with gore lyrics and just be called grindcore or likewise with death metal. if they blend both sounds together than it deathgrind.

Tell me what is wrong there.
 
List some bands then. The "goregrind" bands I've heard were borderline slam but I'm pretty ignorant on the subject I guess, so enlighten me.
 
Anal Cunt is absolutely belligerent noise. But in regard to grind, think about how even it has come. Listen to Misery Index, for example (if you consider them grind - I do), or Nasum, like you mentioned and who are fucking great. There's even grindcore-esque death metal, like Cryptopsy. It's just so much more complex and structured than the likes of Napalm Death and "You Suffer."

What I find interesting in grind is, and we may or may not be talking about grindcore anymore here, the evolutionary path that began with the first Razorback Records bands like Ghoul, Machetazo, and Gruesome Stuff Relish. I really have a hard time calling that stuff grind as of late, but hell, they practically started a whole other sub-subgenre, the cartoony, thrashy, fake-blood-soaked music that I've heard called "happy grind." What do you think about that?

Good call on the Dead Infection drop - love them.

I actually like that noise stuff from 7mon to Sore Throat to Deche Charge to Fear Of God. all of it kicks ass.

as far as the happy grind thing, I don't mind it. I like some of it.
 
Ironically, Billy (president of Razorback Records) despises the term goregrind.

I have a CD of Billy's old project, a noisecore drum machine thing called Pissed Off Orgasm, which used to be Traci Lords Loves Noise, which I own a tape of. to most normal people it would be difficult listening, but I enjoy it.
 
actually a genre called shitcore exists, its a lo-fi poorly played subgenre of noisecore.

I own a No Refund tape which could be called shitcore.