Ascension
New Metal Member
So it turns out that Jorn is capitalistic...nothing wrong with that. And as I remember, he did PPUSA a big favor by filling the open headliner spot on short notice as Nevermore had dropped out.
Hate to be the one to post this... (Jorn related)
- Thread starter mëtålspëd
- Start date
J-Dubya 777
It NEVER ends
Pellaz
Tigron of Immanion
+ 1
Nicely put. While I'm also a bit...bemused...at Daniel's vision, I certainly would love to see them again with another fan-picked setlist. 'Course, there are only about 3 other people out there in PPUSAland who would agree.
Aha! "And now we know.......the rest of the story."
All the same, it seems like you choose who you bitch at to some degree...
It is easier to bitch at bands you don't love all that much.
Glenn wrote that he didn't blame Nevermore for making a career decision, but some of you guys go apeshit anyway, claiming that the reason for your anger is loyalty to Glenn -how do you get that to match?
I mean, Circus Maximus did the same thing and they're on their way back here and nobody (including Glenn) bitches at them.
When you just behave shitty instead, like dishonouring agreements for crap reason, that's another story and that's what I see in Glenn's posts, but not in his loyal followers....
Just something to think about in the midst of anger!
It is easier to bitch at bands you don't love all that much.
Glenn wrote that he didn't blame Nevermore for making a career decision, but some of you guys go apeshit anyway, claiming that the reason for your anger is loyalty to Glenn -how do you get that to match?
I mean, Circus Maximus did the same thing and they're on their way back here and nobody (including Glenn) bitches at them.
When you just behave shitty instead, like dishonouring agreements for crap reason, that's another story and that's what I see in Glenn's posts, but not in his loyal followers....
Just something to think about in the midst of anger!
Reminds me about what happened to Timo Tolkki with this label: He was hunting a label to release his Saana-opera. These guys knew he had made a new CD with Strato almost ready, but the band was stuck with legal issues after their label had been taken over by a global corporate label and couldn't have a hope to release it any time soon. So they offered $$$ and sweet-talked Tolkki over to split with Strato and re-record the tracks with a session line-up and sign with this label, in return they'd also release his opera.
Tolkki swallowed the bait and told the other Strato-guys that for him Strato was done, keep the change. But when it came the time to release Saana, the label suddenly realized that Saana wasn't "rock enough" as the way it was described in their contract. And they blatantly threw it back in Tolkkis lap but kept and released the re-recorded CD.
Just wonder wether Jorn did read the small print on his contract paper's backside before giving the PP-footage to the people behind the same label... doubt he did...
Harvester
The Promoter
You gotta be fucking kidding me....
I'm use to you being a total asshole to me, but at least back it up with a good argument. I could tear your post apart with facts, but you and I both know that you it will do no good. You see no wrong in the situation because there was a negative towards me involved. That's always a plus in your book.
Harvester
The Promoter
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
I think people should also consider, bands have been getting screwed by promoters since the dawn of time. The idea that a band should never bail on a show, because they would be screwing the promoter, is about as meaningless (to many bands) as an idea can be. Granted, Glenn is a class act. However, to most bands, a promoter is a promoter. And just as Glenn has (admittedly) become jaded when dealing with artists, so too have artists with dealing with promoters.
As for the Nevermore and the Disturbed tour... if I recall correctly, there were a total of seven dates, in Europe. If Nevermore told Disturbed that they would need to miss close to half the tour, so they could fly back to the states and do a one-off, they most likely would have been kicked off the tour. So their options were...
1. Tour with Disturbed (one of only six artists in music history to have their first three releases debut at #1 on the Billboard charts)
2. Play ProgPower... in front a bunch of people who (by and large) already either, A) own their entire discography or B) can't stand Nevermore and would be hanging at the bar during the set
Also keep in mind, when Glenn books an act, the cost of travel is something both sides consider. If Nevermore wanted to fly back and forth to the states, to perform at ProgPower, they would have had to do so on their dime. These flights would have either partially or fully negated any financial benefit of performing at ProgPower. And this doesn't even account for the giant pain in the ass that it would be to travel from Germany, to Atlanta, and back to Germany, for a 90 minute set.
It's with good reason Glenn has said he doesn't blame them.
Zod
As for the Nevermore and the Disturbed tour... if I recall correctly, there were a total of seven dates, in Europe. If Nevermore told Disturbed that they would need to miss close to half the tour, so they could fly back to the states and do a one-off, they most likely would have been kicked off the tour. So their options were...
1. Tour with Disturbed (one of only six artists in music history to have their first three releases debut at #1 on the Billboard charts)
2. Play ProgPower... in front a bunch of people who (by and large) already either, A) own their entire discography or B) can't stand Nevermore and would be hanging at the bar during the set
Also keep in mind, when Glenn books an act, the cost of travel is something both sides consider. If Nevermore wanted to fly back and forth to the states, to perform at ProgPower, they would have had to do so on their dime. These flights would have either partially or fully negated any financial benefit of performing at ProgPower. And this doesn't even account for the giant pain in the ass that it would be to travel from Germany, to Atlanta, and back to Germany, for a 90 minute set.
It's with good reason Glenn has said he doesn't blame them.
Zod
Burke
Member
I LOVE Ark and really dig listening to Jorn both with them and his solo stuff.
But this move with the DVD irritated me when I first learned about the issue with the footage.
I will still listen to Jorn but have not paid for anything new of his since his PP performance and won't in the future.
I always support the bands I love or new ones I discover from PP and will always buy the CD to support the band if I have a torrented copy or a burned copy from a friend. In this case however.... its going to be the opposite situation.
But this move with the DVD irritated me when I first learned about the issue with the footage.
I will still listen to Jorn but have not paid for anything new of his since his PP performance and won't in the future.
I always support the bands I love or new ones I discover from PP and will always buy the CD to support the band if I have a torrented copy or a burned copy from a friend. In this case however.... its going to be the opposite situation.
Not exactly true. Ask Mike.
Ha Ha! Ok!
Well, little did I know... (-but they're back again...? odd/professional? You tell me!)
-Anyway, that just makes my point stronger. Most people here really wanna support Glenn, and nothing wrong with that I guess, but it's easy to bag bands ya don't like, and if you happen to like 'em it's more hush-hush.
I think there is a difference between when you end up being forced to prioritize between two good things and being more or less forced by your (hopefully existing) ambition to choose whatever you deem will do the band the most good, and when you simply use little loopholes or simply fuck someone over just becasue it was only an oral agreement or something like that.
What I'm saying is, it's ok to be disappointed but to use some crap like this to justify illegal downloading to yourself just sound like a big load of crap to me.
No Username
Member
If you used the words "black" and "white" instead of "artist" and "promoter" you would be labeled prejudiced or racist. A band (or a promoter) that assumes the other is going to act a certain way without evidence is prejudiced.
...and the problem is? You say it is ok for them to break a commitment to Glenn, but not OK for them to break a commitment to Disturbed?
Disturbed's Billboard numbers from America, right? I wonder who is better known in the cities they toured at, Nevermore, or Disturbed. I wonder who needed whom more.
To fulfill a promise/contract they made to the fans in the USA.
There would have been a percentage that had never heard of them, would go out and buy their albums, and spread the word on how much they liked the band. For example, I bought 2 disks blindly just because they had been announced. They person who I gave the disks away to, liked them a lot and bought two more albums. There is ALWAYS a benefit to playing in the American market--you will reach fans who would never hear about you otherwise.
The cost of travel is something both sides consider when the agreement is made for the band to play the show. Saying that neveragain is going to bail on us because they would have to incur extra travel cost BECAUSE THEY DECIDED to break their agreement just sounds like another reason why I would never buy another album.
IIRC, didn't Nightwish do something similar in PPIV? If they had decided not to play because of that situation, they would have lost several hundred dollars in album sales and merch from me alone. I give their disks away during the holidays for chrissakes. All because they sucked it up and played despite a crappy gig situation.
I tip my hat to Glenn's incredible tolerance of bad behavior.
Azrael LenGraden
Lake Of Fire
Azrael LenGraden
Lake Of Fire
I am sure I could find a bad dealing, cancellation for whatever reason, backout of an agreement, and what have you for any band you can name to me, because it happens to everyone. If it was a festival none of us knew about, we wouldn't be talking about it and we wouldn't even care. I know it sucked, especially for someone like me, who's favorite band happens to be Nevermore(not a bad song among their discography), to not to get to see them, but they tour here in the state so it wasn't that big of a loss. On the way home from gigantour they played a few last minute headline shows, and one of those happened to be in Dallas, and it was one hell of a show. The guys in Nevermore were the nicest guys I have met and are a class act. I didn't have to go seek out Van or Jim because they were going around introducing themselves to everybody and talking with everybody. If you have ever been offered a bigger better paying job, doing the same thing, and didn't take it, then you have some room to speak, but if you have ever been offered a bigger better paying job doing the same thing and took it, please do not speak anymore on this issue.
Ascension
New Metal Member
You gotta be fucking kidding me....
I'm use to you being a total asshole to me, but at least back it up with a good argument. I could tear your post apart with facts, but you and I both know that you it will do no good. You see no wrong in the situation because there was a negative towards me involved. That's always a plus in your book.
Kidding you? Why would I do that?
Again...as I remember it was you that posted on this forum praising Jorn for jumping in and accepting to fill the headliner spot on short notice. He...being a businessman as well as a musician/showman...took advantage of getting the video footage at a very good price as you stated and is now releasing it on his own...which is capitalization at it's finest. I don't see any negatives there. He's a businessman...he just did what he felt was best for him. Which is the same that other bands (i.e. Circus Maximus) have done...yet get a pass.
Harvester
The Promoter
1. Take advantage = breaking a legal agreement. I delivered said product based on the agreement. He purchased product based on the same agreement. He did not deliver on his side of the agreement in return. If that's how you do business, then more power to you. I cannot do that to a person.
2. Circus Maximus & I have resolved our differences via a mutally beneficial agreement. I would do the same for Jorn or Nevermore if it meant something good coming out of it for the festival.
booB
Señor Member
No-Mercy
Feanor
doing something good does not warrant being an asshole...they dont offset. maybe he did something good in that instance, but it doesnt act as a pass the next time he (or anyone) decides to be an ass.
