"Pop" Metal

[skyrefuge]

listen to what you want to listen to and don't worry so much about what it means if you are.

Definitely. But I think it's still useful to have a working definition of "pop". Not so that it can be used as a static classification, but so that it can simply be used as a shorthand term to talk about music. It's basically a relative descriptor, much like "heavy". Such as: "Sentenced's 'Down' is more pop than 'Amok', which is more pop than 'North From Here'" or "'Amaranth' is the most pop song on the new Nightwish album" or "Helloween's 'As Long As I Fall' has an awesome pop hook in it". Of course, you have to trust that your audience is using the same definition of 'pop' that you are when you use the term, but in that context, I think it's pretty clear.

Neil

 

[Pellaz]

I tend to define "pop" as radio-friendly, regardless of the genre of music. Hence, "Amaranth" really is the most 'pop' song on DPP.

"Pop-metal" would be the metal (or almost-metal) that gets a lot of radio airplay.....or could get airplay, if it were noticed by the industry.

 

[BlackRoseMetalHeart]

I recoil when someone mentions St. Anger. What a piece of garbage that album was. It may not be pop metal, but it was crap.

QFT

I tend to define "pop" as radio-friendly, regardless of the genre of music. Hence, "Amaranth" really is the most 'pop' song on DPP.

"Pop-metal" would be the metal (or almost-metal) that gets a lot of radio airplay.....or could get airplay, if it were noticed by the industry.

+1

OK, I know that this was a pointless post on my part, but I pretty much agree with what has already been stated here. I really don't listen to the radio anymore, so I don't really know anything about what "pop metal" is. I know that on the rare occasion that I do turn my radio to the local "metal/modern rock" station I typically hear the same old "classics" that gets overplayed or I hear nothing but what to me sounds like crap. So I typically just don't listen to the radio at all.

I guess you could call bands like Poison, Def Leppard, Dokken, Bon Jovi, Whitesnake, Motley Crue, Ratt, etc. "pop metal," but those bands really aren't that "popular" anymore (not in the sense that they once were) so I typically refer to them as "glam metal" or "hair metal" bands.

 

[rms]

New Nightwish is getting another thread about them?
















Zing!

 

[MetalRose]

I tend to define "pop" as radio-friendly, regardless of the genre of music. Hence, "Amaranth" really is the most 'pop' song on DPP.

"Pop-metal" would be the metal (or almost-metal) that gets a lot of radio airplay.....or could get airplay, if it were noticed by the industry.

Hey why don't you paraphrase what I just said for me, thanks.

(Yes, I'm being a brat!)

-Metal

 

[OrbWeaver]

New Nightwish is getting another thread about them?


Zing!

 

[MetalOperaChick]

I use pop as a term to refer to vocals. The technique. (at least for me...) In Nightwish's case. It COMPLETELY fits. YES she sounds like Kelly Clarkson...on a VERY bad day and YES she bounces around like her on stage too. It's repulsive. Don't get me started. And if anyone replies to that opinion of mine and tries to start an argument i wont answer as i will only be beating a dead horse. *cough* As far as SA and Helloween....What? lol Those two don't make sense.

Actually...now that i think about it i can see where someone would hear the pop element in SA's vocals especially on the new album. Helloween though...that one baffles me.

 

[Pellaz]

I guess you could call bands like Poison, Def Leppard, Dokken, Bon Jovi, Whitesnake, Motley Crue, Ratt, etc. "pop metal," but those bands really aren't that "popular" anymore (not in the sense that they once were) so I typically refer to them as "glam metal" or "hair metal" bands.

Same here. At one time they were 'pop metal'; now they're sometimes lumped in with other bands of that era as 'true' metal, which is kinda weird. Depends on where you're seeing the metal scene from.

When I discuss my musical tastes with people who are not into the metal scene at all, I just call metal "hard rock" instead, and they just nod sagely....and get away from me ASAP.

New Nightwish is getting another thread about them?


Zing!

heh, that'd be funnier if they were actually getting any airplay here, which -- aside from smaller-scale outlets like WREKage and the MusicChoice Metal channel on cable -- they aren't.
I'm still in awe that they sold out a show here basically on word-of-mouth and regional draw alone...and since much of the crowd was visibly into the older material rather than the new, it wasn't a case of 'newcomer' fans who discovered the new, 'pop-metal' CD.

 

[rms]

I dont care if MTV2 plays Nightwish on headbanger's ball, its much more mainstream sound than before.

 

[General Zod]

Pop = Happy. Rather than having a dark vibe to their music, as most Metal bands do, bands like Sonata Arctica sound upbeat and happy. And happy Metal songs sound as odd and unnatural and a dark, foreboding Ricky Martin song.

Zod

 

[BlackRoseMetalHeart]

When I discuss my musical tastes with people who are not into the metal scene at all, I just call metal "hard rock" instead, and they just nod sagely....and get away from me ASAP.

Yeah, Nick and I met a friend of a friend one time and she asked how Nick and I knew the mutual friend. When we mentioned ProgPower, a yearly metal festival that we all go to, her response was a somewhat vacant expression follow by "Metal? Oh, you mean like rock music." :zombie: I thought Nick was going to have an aneurysm, but instead he politely excused himself from the conversation and I just smiled (probably somewhat queasily ) and said "Yeah, like rock music," and then proceeded to change the subject.

Pop = Happy. Rather than having a dark vibe to their music, as most Metal bands do, bands like Sonata Arctica sound upbeat and happy. And happy Metal songs sound as odd and unnatural and a dark, foreboding Ricky Martin song.

Zod, I think I understand the point you are trying to make, except for the fact that a good majority of Sonata's songs, however upbeat of a tempo they might have, are about loss of love or other sorts of depressing/sad issues. In fact, I would go as far to say that if Sonata is deserving of any sort of ridiculous sub-genre classification it would be that of "emo-metal" (which I really just made up) for the intense amount of emotion that comes through in everyone of their songs, particularly in the lyrics and vocals. I think Evergrey could fall into this silly sub-genre as well.

I like various sub-genres/types/variations of metal, including the more "upbeat" metal songs, regardless if that means they have happy/funny themes - Just a Little Sign, Helloween - or they have darker themes - (90% of) Hellfire Club, Edguy. As many have mentioned before, "pop" is short for popular which typically in America means radio play. However much the audiences for these types of bands may have grown, I have yet to hear of anything like Edguy, Helloween, or Sonata Arctica on the radio/MTV or any other sort of "popular" outlet. Although as I mentioned before, I don't really depend on the radio to tell me what's good or what's popular - I just listen to what I like.

 

[General Zod]

Zod, I think I understand the point you are trying to make, except for the fact that a good majority of Sonata's songs, however upbeat of a tempo they might have, are about loss of love or other sorts of depressing/sad issues.

Well, with Sonata, it's more about the vibe of the music than the lyrics. However, with respect to the lyrics, Sonata's grasp on the English language is so tenuous, hilarity often ensues, which brings us back to the happiness factor.

Zod

 

[BlackRoseMetalHeart]

with respect to the lyrics, Sonata's grasp on the English language is so tenuous, hilarity often ensues, which brings us back to the happiness factor.

Perhaps you are picking up on something I haven't (either that or I haven't had enough coffee today to make the connection). Many times I find that Toni has hit the nail right on the head in regards to pairing words with emotion, but maybe there are some Sonota songs I am not as familiar with where what you are speaking of occurs. Could you provide an example please?

 

[General Zod]

...but maybe there are some Sonota songs I am not as familiar with where what you are speaking of occurs. Could you provide an example please?

“Last Drop Falls” ...

“The moment I will step aside, you're ready for another ride,
Walking in the cool night air without underwear”

I was in the unfortunate position of having a mouth full of coffee when this lyric was offered to the Gods of Irony. Needless to say, my keyboard did not survive this lyric.

Zod

 

[rms]

Or the song where he steals her earring, its so random lol

 

[Ripperjack]

Guess Im not the only one who noticed this increase in labeling power/prog bands 'pop metal'. I can understand where the label is coming from - but it just doesnt fit, nor does it present the right image to a potential listener if they arent already immersed in the metal scene.

 

[Yippee38]

“Last Drop Falls” ...

“The moment I will step aside, you're ready for another ride,
Walking in the cool night air without underwear”

Aside for the poor grammar of the first phrase, I like it. He gets the point across rather well IMO. The last line there is hillarious too.

How about "You have red light burning in your soul, I've seen the glow"?

Or the song where he steals her earring, its so random lol

I don't think that's random at all. The song is about a stalker. He is to the point where he is in her house when she is sleeping and steals something (that happens to be an earring) from her.

 

[Ruthven]

"Why can't some metalheads just admit they are listening to amplified pop music?"

Good point, Jim, and I'll be the first to admit to it. I see no shame in a well-crafted pop song.

 

[BlackRoseMetalHeart]

Aside for the poor grammar of the first phrase, I like it. He gets the point across rather well IMO. The last line there is hillarious too.

How about "You have red light burning in your soul, I've seen the glow"?

Again these are both songs where I feel like Toni hits the nail on the head, both with actions of the characters and the imagery he provides. In Last Drop Falls he's talking about the girl being like a whore (at least that's what I always got out of those lines).

I don't think that's random at all. The song is about a stalker. He is to the point where he is in her house when she is sleeping and steals something (that happens to be an earring) from her.

Exactly. This song actually reminds me a lot of a relationship my friend was in, not that he was a stalker, but because he was so deeply in love with her and they were in the process of breaking up (he wanted to try to save the relationship, she obviously did not), she was accusing him of a lot of things that he would never do (like stalking her). And because she was being so crazy, the line "I have never wished you dead ... yet" also really rings true. Maybe that sounds nuts, but if you knew/know someone in that kind of situation it's not such a far fetch (humorous) account of what life is really like.

a well-crafted pop song.

This to me is an oxymoron. Not saying I don't like anything with "pop" elements or that something that is "poppy" or upbeat can't be enjoyable to listen to, but when I think "well-crafted" I generally don't think of "pop" anything. Unless you mean "well-crafted pop song" in that it is, like most "pop" ("popular") songs designed to be a very simply structured song meant to appeal to the masses who can't grasp more than a ABABCABB song structure with a 4/4 tempo.

 

[Evil Penguin]

Pop metal is something the other people listen to. If you listen to it too, then it's not pop metal.