SOMEONE NEEDS TO EXPOSE ZANE (CDINZANE)
- Thread starter Metaldrumz
- Start date
Mardoch
Defender of the Universe
Not to put words in Ken's mouth but I believe the phrase "I'm too old for this shit!" sums up Ken's position on vending annually.
lasercd
Man Behind The Curtain
squarooticus
The Wise
Ken stopped because (a) he doesn't make enough money off the festival to justify the business expense and (b) he wants to enjoy the festival as an attendee. I can't blame him, and I wouldn't expect to see him back as a vendor.
lasercd
Man Behind The Curtain
This has come up in the past so I'd like to put this to rest. I decided to stop vending at ProgPower primarily because of family related issues. Glenn generously approached me with the idea of the Insider Sale as a means to make money for both of us and because ProgPower attendees would find it useful. Frankly I'm the only vendor that could pull it off. No other vendor at ProgPower had the breadth of resources that we had at our disposable to source all of the product required for an "insider sale".
I was quite amenable as it meant less expenses for me and it was much less time consuming. For one thing I could fly into Atlanta instead of a 15 hour drive. I only had to sit behind a table for Saturday afternoon. The deal was that Glenn got a percentage of my sales. Win-win.
The first year we ran the insider sale it worked out quite well. I made some money, Glenn made some money. It was worthwhile. The second year didn't work out well at all for me. Many of the bands didn't have all their CDs in print (Pretty Maids), some bands only had one release (MaYan), some bands everyone already owned the complete discography (Symphony X). I lost thousands of dollars and in many cases I was stuck with non-returnable inventory that took years to sell off. Glenn still made money as he got his percentage.
Since my sales success was contigent on the band's Glenn booked it became far too risky for me to revisit. In theory its a great idea. In execution its a wild card from year to year.
Now I just come to Atlanta and have a good time. See you in September.
Palabra de Dios
Heavy Metal Weatherman
The insider sale was a cool idea, but I do understand those circumstances. The vendor room will indeed be different this year, but I will still come with cash in hand; no doubt!
Justin G
Member
Is it me, or does "crowd funding" for a retail business make no sense at all? You get your crowd funding when customers buy your products. Period.
The Invisible Guest
Member
Yeah .. it sure sounded like you were blamed for the failed campaign, and it sounded like Glenn was blamed for allowing negative chatter to happen on this board. A lot of blame game going on by Zane in that post, but what's new ... he's always been good at that.
Britt
Yeah, but it is going to get tougher finding the CDs I'm looking for. Now I'm down to Lance and Century Media as to tables I regularly frequent. Maybe someone new will step up, but it is getting harder.
It makes sense if the business is trying to make capital improvements and there are some tangible benefits to the customer. For example, last year the local second-run movie theater in my neighborhood ran a Kickstarter to get new seats for their theater. The benefit to supporters, other than the new seats, was free movie tickets.
In this case, tho, we are talking about someone who suddenly shut down their previous business to start a similar storefront with no real guarantee or trust (or, as far I can tell, benefits for supporters) to actually get the money to do it. To be honest, shutting down your previous business with little communication doesn't exactly engender trust. Reaching out your hand and asking for money afterwards is potentially dishonest.
Personally, I've never had a problem dealing with Zane at ProgPower. I know some people who did and wouldn't do business with him, but I wasn't one of those people. It is unfortunate that it has come to this.
PromisedLand
Master of Corgis
- Sep 3, 2013
- 729
- 4
- 18
Honestly, I think it's way too late for that. The rudeness to customers, the shipments that took months, the sale of out-of stock merchandise, and the general apathy towards doing what it takes to make your customers return went on for years without correction.
He was even hostile in responding to all of the BBB complaints - that's your last chance to save a relationship, and it usually went bad. Who tells a customer that they are banned from purchasing because they complained to the owner about how long an order was taking to ship?
I might buy from his table in person, but the mail order business model that he embraced sucked, and there are less risky ways to handle my money, like leaving it on the front seat of my car with the windows rolled down.
The Invisible Guest
Member
Agreed .. especially in a case like this. Nobody wants to help fund a for profit business where they will not see any profits themselves. It's senseless, and that shows in the paltry amount of money that was given. The vast majority of the incentives offered also put the crowd funder at a loss. For the low price of $250 you can get a shirt with you name on it ... well, sign me up!
At least when a band does this sort of thing you usually get something of equal value for your dime. Give $15 .. get a CD, or something like that. Give $10 get a free download of the new CD.
Britt
Jasonic
Doom On!
Justin G
Member
Jasonic
Doom On!
FatesFan
Member
- Dec 18, 2004
- 1,667
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I will agree that a band is a business but that is where the similarities stop. I may help crowd fund a band I really want to hear music from. That band is the only band that can offer me their sound with those musicians. Why fund a cd store when you can buy the same cd's from so many other places?
So again.....I give money to a band and they put out some music.
or
I can buy this cd I really want for $ 15.00 anywhere or I can send $500.00 bucks to a guy so he can order that cd for me and I can buy it from him for $ 15.00. So now that cd cost ne $515.00.
Not really apples and apples.
As for Zane. I spent a few dollars over the years at his tables as well as online and over the phone and never had an issue. It's a shame things have turned out like this.
AngraRULES
Member
Good, because you're not really that accurate.
A band is a business, but not just like a retailer.
Jasonic
Doom On!
jhallum
Computer guy
I think the distinction you are looking for is that most kickstarting campaigns are businesses or potential businesses kickstarting a product, not kickstarting their whole business operation.
From Reaper Minis using three different kickstarter campaigns to build out all of the molds for their plastic minis line, to Pinnacle Entertainment Group using kickstarter to immediately fund the next world book in their Savage Worlds line, or Voyager crowdfunding the production of their next CD (or Pain of Salvation crowdfunding their next tour), those are all businesses offering me a product at a value with a successful pitch to get me to buy in. Since I trust all of those businesses to give me a reliable and enjoyable product at that value, it's a no-brainer to take part in their campaigns.
It's another story to crowdfund a business like was asked, just a scant few months after the last identical business failed. The pitch didn't tell me anything about what was going to be different about this business compared to the last one that failed. The lack of effective rewards merely emphasized this fact, I could care less about magnets and a week early entry into a store, or me paying $100 for a t-shirt advertising a store. The fact that the most effective rewards ($75 of product for $45) were not clearly rewards considering amazon already effectively offers 30% discounts on disks already compounded the issue.
To support a business like Reaper Minis to the tune of nearly $500 was easy for their two Bones kickstarters, which expanded them from being a metal minis company to a plastic minis company. I got tons and tons of product for literally a third the price I would pay in the store. Even Exploding Kittens, the most recent game kickstarter I got in on, which didn't have the equivalent ratio of price to product, had an easy to understand value proposition. This didn't have that, which is why I didn't support it. Looks like others had problems with it as well, which is why there were only four backers.
The right business can sell a kickstarter, this wasn't it.
dcowboys311
Member
With retailers, you really have more options to get the same product. For example, I can get the same Manilla Road record from SKR or from Amazon, no difference in product. I have no reason to crowdfund either of them, because I can get the same thing from a variety of places.
Now, if the retailer is selling a 100% unique item...maybe they can justify crowdfunding. Not that I know anything about how that'd work with tax laws, financial reporting, etc.
But as you know, there's only one Manilla Road. You can get a Shark-less substitute, but it's not the same. So, if the two options are a) pay for a world where MR still exists or b) accept that life from here on out is slightly crappier, some people would go with option A.
For the record, I agree w/ you on crowdfunding for the most part. The only time I've ever done it was for a festival 700mi away that promised me a recording of the Ashbury and Oz sets that I never received *cough*
A retailer might be able to justify it, if it can somehow give something of value for those willing to contribute. The problem is that a retailer generally doesn't create anything. They sell goods provided by someone else, which requires capital to acquire. Most retailers in this day and age don't exactly have a huge margin to work with, so being able to give something on top of that would be tough.
As far as I could tell, Zane wasn't really giving anything but "You'll get a kickass music retailer", which isn't exactly a strong selling point when those exist out there without having to front someone money to do it.
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