The End Records, Novembers Doom & CNN...

[chupe666]

One particular band i'd think might be an interesting option to talk with about booking shows together is Tub Ring. Since they 1) are local to you, 2) have a new record also released by The End and 3) are sonically quite different from you (yet still heavy), and you are each likely to pull in new listeners for the other. Playing with other bands is only beneficial as long as the bands you are playing with have audience you don't have, which is less likely in the cases of the usual suspects (Opeth, Moonspell, etc, who don't even live this side of the ocean). I'd love to see you guys try touring w/ stateside bands who don't necessarily fall into a similar musical category. One of my favorite shows I ever got to play w/ ND was with Spirit Caravan and Place of Skulls, neither of whom other people would say ND had a lot in common with. I've no idea if any new ND fans were garnered from that show, but i think that's where new fans are forged. At the very least, someone new may be drunk and genial enough to throw $10 toward a cd of yours.

For instance, one particular show I went to last year was Genghis Tron and a band called Kiss Kiss (who could possibly be described as a more indie rock, song-oriented version of kayo dot without as many complexities). I'd heard GT, but not Kiss Kiss, and I ended up buying their disc because the songs were good (even though there were only like 5 people there and they goofed off- or perhaps in part because of that, now that i think about it..). Totally different bands as far as style, but I was drawn into their music just the same. Never would've come across them otherwise.

 

[dan of bereavement]

Tour with Opeth, Nevermore, King Diamond Type O, Cradle, That is the market that you fit in. Not saying compaired to musically, because they are all obviously different. But, I think you would do very well with any of those bands. Daylight Dies are doing well lately, (Especially with their Emperor tour) maybe with them (smaller basis, but totally works).

As for your site, and what I would like to see on a band that I never heard/was interested in. Do you have the rights to your digital downloads? That is a good thing to have on your website, Direct dl's for songs, like passerbys can listen to a song right from your site. Have an "art" section, and link to Deviant art and Vampire freaks, that would help out your site traffic/sales I think. You guys definitely need to Break out!!!!!!

 

[KittyKatatonia]

I read this article the other day. What a shame. I order loads from The End, and I'd hate to lose them so hopefully they'll pull through. But really, what did they expect with NY? It's an insanely expensive place to live or do business.

And putting all their financial trust in such a stupid band like Lordi is pretty scary. Even scarier might be some of their other new signings like Tub Ring. What the hell are they signing crappy emo bands now?

 

[Novembers Paul]

Andreas makes smart decisions. They may not always look that way on the surface, but we know working with him very closely, he's not one to throw money around for no good reason. Everything has a business plan. I'm not sure deep down I believe Lordi will have the same commercial success here as in Europe, but that is one trait about The End Records I respect, that they take chances, usually smart chances, and it was a deciding factor when we signed to them. I'm sure a lot of people scratched their head and said "Why the fuck would he sign Novembers Doom?" Of course we have our differences, that's only natural, but he's always backed us up when we needed him to.

Being a band on the label, we want to see The End succeed more then anyone. Saying that, our TOP priority is "The Novella Reservoir" and ITS success. So if it means I need to do more hands on, to make sure it happens, we're all open to that. Hopefully in the long run, we all succeed.

 

[Jasonic]

Hey guys,
I previously mentioned the On Demand metal videos shown on Comcast Cable.
I was browsing it yesterday, and saw that THE END put Lordi's new video out there. Maybe ask if they can put one of yours...

 

[BloodSword]

To all band members and anyone who has an interest, I will take a few days and think about what can be done to assist Novembers Doom. I think what get's lost, especially in the business aspect is the human factor. I feel I can safely say by some of my conversations and posts the band has made, that ND are men who are just fuckin' decent people. ND deserves all they can get in exposure and financial gain. The fact that ND, at this point in their careers, have "out of pocket" expenses is ridiculous to me. There MUST be a way where ND and their families recieve what is due them. Nothing worth accomplishing is without sacrifice, I understand that, and now it's their time. I will think and get back. Peace.

 

[Novembers Paul]

We wouldn't do this if we didn't want to. It's never been about making money. This is not a job for us, but it does require a lot of work. We're all rewarded in different ways from this.

 

[FrostGiant]

I got the feeling from that article that there's not much effort being put towards digital music (itunes, musicmatch, etc.). That's where the industry is right now and appears to be where the future is headed. I see the mention of the fact that metal fans like to buy the entire cd, etc, etc. Sure, that may be the case. But why not try to get outside this small fan base. Also, I think these metal fans don't get into digital music because it's just not there. Why would I buy a subscription to musicmatch or itunes when there isn't any music I want to listen to? I believe that cds will eventually become a novelty the same as 45s are now. And I don't think this is too far off. So I would think the end needs to turn that 1% of digital sales into 10% very soon.

 

[dan of bereavement]

I got the feeling from that article that there's not much effort being put towards digital music (itunes, musicmatch, etc.). That's where the industry is right now and appears to be where the future is headed. I see the mention of the fact that metal fans like to buy the entire cd, etc, etc. Sure, that may be the case. But why not try to get outside this small fan base. Also, I think these metal fans don't get into digital music because it's just not there. Why would I buy a subscription to musicmatch or itunes when there isn't any music I want to listen to? I believe that cds will eventually become a novelty the same as 45s are now. And I don't think this is too far off. So I would think the end needs to turn that 1% of digital sales into 10% very soon.

That's what i was trying to say. something all serious acts should be looking into on a bigger level. I have a friend who works for Sony music, and he says that is the future of his industry, and they won't even look at bands with out 11 tracks on the cd. I know things are going down for the majors and that is where they are looking.

 

[the_drip]

What bands could you really see Novembers Doom touring with, and doing successfully on, here in the United States? And keep in mind, don't say things like "My Dying Bride, Anathema, and ND" because what I'm meaning are bands that actually tour here and have a strong presence on the road, not "dream tours" involving us and two or three other bands who don't (and probably won't) tour here. Are there any bands out there currently making a strong live presence who you could honestly see ND fitting in well with in terms of crowd exceptance?

Opeth.

 

[sknight]

This is just more an example of how good and creative bands don't get the respect they deserve and how the industry bullshit that's forcing it to implode on itself drags the artists down.

Get your masters before it's too late.

For promotion, several bands have done well catering to the Prog crowds that are thirsty for harder music, including doom-esque bands. Might be an idea.

I would love to see ND tour with Frost. It would be a nice complement.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Hmmm, I think maybe my question was somewhat misunderstood by you guys....let me rephrase it more clearly.

Touring with bands like Opeth or bands of their ilk is kind of expected already, especially since we've already played with Opeth in the past. My question is, in terms of touring with other types of heavy bands out there, what kind of "fit" can you see happening for us? Like for example, do you think if we toured with bands like Black Dahlia Murder or God Forbid, or even with bands like Nevermore or Iced Earth......do you think we'd manage to do well and convert some of those types of crowds into liking ND? I realise alot of you guys here might not personally like those bands or that style of metal and that's not really what I'm asking. I sorta feel like ND have to break out of this pigeonholed notion people have of us, where we're always being asked to play "doom" fests or tour with only "doom" bands. It's not that I don't enjoy touring with certain doom bands....I just think that with our newer material we'd stand a better chance converting new fans who maybe aren't from that doom scene.

I could see us doing okay now on a tour with bands like Amon Amarth and Behemoth and Morbid Angel and stuff of that ilk. We're obviously not as fast as those bands but I think we've got enough aggression in our sound that we'd appeal to some of their fans.

 

[dan of bereavement]

I think you would do ok with Amon Amarth but the others may not work as well. Just knowing how scensters are, they would all talk shit. We played with Cryptopsy here in Boston and people were so fucking mad that there bands didn't play or local bands that sounded exactly like them weren't on it. I think you would fit real well with Obituary, Bolt Thrower, Nevermore, Maybe King Diamond, Just more open minded metal fans who like "Moodier metal" Like Nevermore, They are death Metal with melodic vocals it's cross Genre. I could see you tour with Maiden before you play with Behemoth. What about that band Abigail Williams? They played with Enslaved, didn't fit, but peeps dug them. The sad thing was Enslaved drew about 100 people that was just weird, You would think they drew better.

 

[zmetallica]

I think ND needs to do the into eternity thing. tour as much as you can and with as many different bands as you can across all genres. death metal, doom, progressive, etc.

As for the fan club, maybe what you need is some type of street team with a reward system. promote promote promote. get some people to really tell all their friends and new people through the net about the band. I think the only thing this band needs is time.

Definitely get your music on all outlets on the internet, TV, and (college) radio. the label's job, but if they aren't doing it to your expectations maybe things should be taken into the hands of you and your fans. Internet radio stations, music sites like myspace and purevolume and the 100s of others like them, internet TV, etc.

 

[Novembers Paul]

I think ND needs to do the into eternity thing. tour as much as you can and with as many different bands as you can across all genres. death metal, doom, progressive, etc.

We will never be able to do that. Everyone in the band has to much responsibility at home to afford to tour like that. That's one thing that would never happen. This approach doesn't always work either. It worked for Into Eternity, but there's on specific band I'm thinking of, on our own label, who hard tour non stop for the past year, with huge bands, and it hasn't worked the way everyone hoped.

As for the fan club, maybe what you need is some type of street team with a reward system. promote promote promote. get some people to really tell all their friends and new people through the net about the band.

The street team is a good idea, we've tried to assemble one in the past. Maybe we should work this harder.

I think the only thing this band needs is time.

We've been around 18 years, have 6 CDs out, and the majority of the band is in their mid to late 30's. Time is not something we have a lot of. I'm sure we have another CD or 2 in us, but this band won't last forever.

 

[Phoenix5]

but this band won't last forever.

Don't talk such nonsense

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Dan-- I'm sorry to hear you guys didn't do well with Cryptopsy. SoB and Cryptopsy are quite drastically different from one another though as well, so sadly I would kind of expect the narrow-minded minions to talk shit and be nonplussed. The thing is though, with current ND setlists being what they are, I don't think "Drown the Inland Mere", "Dark World Burden", "Rain", etc., would necessarily come off so badly with a more predominantly death metal crowd, or even a metalcore-ish crowd. There's always going to be those people who'll never accept anything outside of their narrow-minded realm of taste, of course. But I am just starting to feel like we need to break out and get some exposure to some different crowds, especially when we're constantly pegged as being "doom" and yet a large percentage of the doom crowd doesn't like what we do because, frankly, we're not doom! lol

Here's another thing to consider.....let's say, ND plays a show with a band like The Black Dahlia Murder (whom I personally enjoy, too)....a large part of their audience are younger metal fans who probably haven't heard of ND, and also aren't really familiar with the doom scene or the bands we constantly seem to get lumped in with. If these kids were to see and hear us now, I'm wondering if perhaps they'd judge us on our own merit and be a bit more accepting of our current sound, since they'd have no preconceived notions about us and maybe not be so prone to comparing us to these other bands or lumping us in with "doom" bands. I get messages and mail from new fans who are younger metalheads and they don't seem to have so many of the preconceptions that alot of the older metalheads have. And it's nice to have new younger fans who aren't constantly saying "This is not like 'The Knowing', that was so much better blah blah blah". lol

As Paul said, we will never be a bad who'll tour nonstop. It's not in the cards for us anymore and frankly, I don't care how much people in the industry and elsewhere tell us thats what we "need to do", I'm not convinced that it's the solution to our problems. I have far too many friends and acquaintances who are in regularly touring bands, or work for those bands, and I hear both sides of the story, good and bad. I think if we were a Shadows Fall type band, then the numero uno thing we should be doing would be to tour relentlessly. There's a large crowd for that music and those kinds of bands are built up that way. I just don't see it working for a band like ours. However, as you can see, the idea of touring isn't completely nil, as we've picked up considerably more live dates than we have in the past and we'll continue to do so. Basically we'll do as much as we possibly can. But this is a reason why I was asking about what you guys thought of venturing into new areas where touring and gigs are concerned, because if all we're ever going to do is be considered some "moody doom band" and get pigeonholed into playing shows like that then I'll probably pack it in now.

And sadly, it's not crazy talk to say that this band definitely has a finite lifespan at this point. We all love doing this but time's no longer on our side. Stagnation will only make the end come sooner.

 

[Danimal]

So, here's an interesting question for you forum readers... What would you like to see from a band on their website? What sort of interaction would you like to see happen? Give us some ideas you feel would help build curiosity to bring new people in to check out the band?

I have an idea...

In my opinion, one of ND's strong points is their interaction with their fans. The fact that you guys read and post on the forum daily, the studio videos and YouTube bootlegs and that Paul opened up his personal life to the fans in "The Wayfaring Chronicles" gives the fans the feeling that you guys are more like friends than some sort of celebrities.

Why not invite some of your "friends" over for practice? Over the years, my band has had several friends and fans stop by one of our practices. They really got a kick out of seeing the band in an informal setting. Watching us argue and goof around plus hearing new unfinished songs, etc... So on a bigger scale, what about setting up some sort of webcam at your practice spot and inviting people to be able to see ND behind the scenes over the internet. You could probably even charge like a $5 "cover" charge and use the money to help with some of your "out of pocket" expenses.

Just a thought...

 

[Dragon_Unearthed]

Here's another thing to consider.....let's say, ND plays a show with a band like The Black Dahlia Murder (whom I personally enjoy, too)....a large part of their audience are younger metal fans who probably haven't heard of ND, and also aren't really familiar with the doom scene or the bands we constantly seem to get lumped in with.

Oh, I agree, The Black Dahlia Murder is a great band, and I could see ND doing shows with this type of band, but I think your answer here kinda states what seems to be some of the problem....younger metal fans. We (us that are in our 30's+) seem to be more diverse in our tastes of music. But the younger metal fans just seem to want Lamb of God, or any countless number of metalcore bands, and when something else is presented, they quickly say, "Oh, they suck", even without giving it a fair listening to. I dunno, maybe it's just me, but I enjoy going to see a band, and being turned onto the opening bands, that either I haven't heard of, or hadn't checked out yet. But today's younger metal fans seem a bit narrow minded, not only in going to see live shows, but also what is "current mainstream metal"...hell, just check out Headbangers Ball for the most part...and not the videos they play, but the goddamn commercials...

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Actually, I agree and disagree with you on that one...

Yes it's true, alot of the younger fans can tend to be narrow-minded, I guess that's to be expected. But I wouldn't let the videos and commercials on MTV be any sort of indicator of what young people want and like, as much as what MTV wants young people to want and like. But anyhow...

My point is this...a 16 year old kid who is really starting to get into metal and likes the bands he sees at Ozzfest, Sounds of the Underground and on Headbangers Ball and such...is looking for new bands to check out and get into, and doesn't have alot of knowledge yet of the many many sub-genres and their backgrounds. This kid might see us opening for a band he's familiar with and go "hey this is a cool death metal band" and get into us, without those preconceived opinions and ideas about us that so many of the older metalheads have because they're familiar with our past, or the scene we're supposedly a part of, or the bands we've been compared to or accused of copying so many times.

It was mentioned the idea of playing with King D. or Maiden.....obviously I'd love to do that, but I think with the older metal fans who populate those shows, those are the people who tend to be much more hard to sway and introduce new sounds and ideas to, because they've gotten to that point where they like what they like and become much more picky and closed-minded to new bands or different genres than what they're accustomed to. When I saw King D. and Nile, there were guys around my age and older who were very negative to Nile being there and kept shouting shit at them between every song, and this made up a fairly large portion of the crowd.

I've met younger fans who've contacted me via myspace or internet forums, who say we're one of their new favorite bands up there with Lamb of God, Opeth, and Trivium. I think we tend to underestimate alot of the younger metalheads these days. There's alot more crossover interest between sub-genres with the younger metal fans than there are with the older ones like myself. This is why you'll see kids with Trivium and Slipknot shirts at a Behemoth show nowadays. And the older more "elite" metal fans are the ones scoffing at them calling them names and shit, which is fucking lame.

I guess what I'm getting at is, I want to try and get new fans of all ages. But I think we might stand a better chance at converting those 16 or 17 year old metalheads into accepting ND and our current sound, moreso than trying to covert those 29 year old metalheads who say "Oh they must be doom metal, thats gay" or "Yeah I heard they sound like MDB and Anathema" or "I dont like melodic death metal bands with clean vocals" and so on. Luckily there's still a decent amount of older, open minded metalheads out there who we can appeal to, but I think the real key to ND taking another step up is going to be getting out to those younger metal fans who are the future of the scene (whether you like it or not! haha)