Ultra tight guitar tone... Fear Factory etc

Benny H

Benny H

Degenerate
Nov 6, 2004
505
0
16
Brisbane, Australia
I'm into very fast rhythmic riffing for my music, but I'm having problems with tone. Admittedly I'm only using a Zoom Gm200 modeler ..but I can actually get ok sound with that + other tricks. So I'm satisfied to a point(we’re only talking demos), but when things heat up and you want machine gun guitar riffs to hit hard, it's like a whole different ball park when it comes to the guitar sound. There's no room for any chunk and fatness to come through if the next note is due immediately.... the faster you go, the less power the punch can have behind it. Especially when tuned low(I tune to Bb) because, as we know, the reason for that low is that vibration is slower.

(I should ad that clarity and articulation of what is being played is very important as far as I'm concerned. Which is what makes it seem to be a difficult balancing act between highs and the meatier stuff)

So logic says the approach to the guitar/bass tone should be different if you want to base your sound around very fast rhythms (actually I guess the logic really says that this is a stupid idea entirely hehe). Fear Factory is an example in my opinion, but my opinion is NOT that they got it right... just that the situation calls for something different. FFs sound... the drums hold the balance of where the power is coming from. It sacrifices too much of the natural ‘band playing music’ feel IMO. But maybe that's ultimately necessary?

Anyway, is it fair to say that this realm has not been as well learned collectively, as opposed to more standard metal guitar sound? It kinda seems that way to me.

So what are the answers if there are any? One conclusion I’ve come to is that I need a baritone guitar(I'd prefer not to tune up, but am considering it). But I doubt my mission will end there... obviously.. cause I don’t even have an amp lol. But what sort of amp? Is solid state more considerable here? Or are certain tubes more suitable? What might change about recording/mixing approach? Etc etc etc.

I’m interested in anything you peoples have to say about this. Any tips would also be much appreciated.

Don't intend this to be about my music, but if you're interested, the last parts of this song of mine are an example of the sort of riffage I'm talking about. http://www.the-degenerate-confines.com/demo/Degenerate_Enemy(demo2004).mp3

Cheers.

- Ben
 
I get a great Fear Factory sound with my JMP-1 and valve power amp & 4x10 (both marshall) mixed with the Dual Rectifier sound on my POD XT.

The one thing out of that list you do need for a tight articulate guitar is a 4x10, it has a much tighter bass response than a 4x12 allowing you to use super drop tunings (I play in A!!!)

What gauge strings do you use? I love the feel of 13's on low tunings (4 wound strings, like a seven string without the high E).
 
I play a 7 string. 11-14-18-28-38-48-60+
I'm using the EMG 81/7 too, which might not be the most suitable for what I'm after... I'm not sure.

Is yours similar to the rig Christian is actually using for FF now? I think I read something about JMP having something to do with Archetype.

Thanks. Any samples of your sound I could check out?
 
My rig is very similar to his in respect to the JMP-1 and power amp, but xtian uses mode 4 4x12 cabs.

Both Xtian and Dino use EMG's so the pickup is perfect!!

Have a look at using a gate, xtian has a Behringer one in his rig. They only let the sound through that is above a certain level, this stops a lot of the mush that you get when trying to play machine-gun style with high gain.

I don't have any sound samples of my rig (I change it all the time) but I'll record some soon.
 
You might consider using a compressor with a slow "attack" setting to let through the attack of the notes loud and proud, before squishing down the sustain. I've found this can help with the articulation, while still retaining a lot of beef.
 
one of the cabs I use is a Randall 2x12 X 1x15. I get pretty good separation because of that config. When I do shows, I mic a 12 and the 15. I play in A with 13's on a neckthrough guitar with a beefy truss rod. I don't use as much gain as I used to but I do compress and limit pretty hard. I think getting a good double pick sound has more to do with the player than the amp. Although, if you run something like a "metal zone" with the gain cranked all the way, you're bound to get a horrible sound no matter what level player you are. I guess if you're a half decent player, you already know better than to do something like that.

All it takes to get the FF sound is a good player with a good guitar using a good tone. Money helps too. (for the right gear)
 
And your palm mute-technique is in big role too! and your hands :)
I can upload some MP3 demonstrations of how you can make your guitarsound to be more tighter, if you just "improve" your palm mute-technique!
PS. I'm drunk. Sorry for the possible LANGUAGE ERRORS OMG! :hotjump: :erk: :yell: :OMG: :OMG: :OMG:
 
futurebre said:
And your palm mute-technique is in big role too! and your hands :)
I can upload some MP3 demonstrations of how you can make your guitarsound to be more tighter, if you just "improve" your palm mute-technique!
PS. I'm drunk. Sorry for the possible LANGUAGE ERRORS OMG! :hotjump: :erk: :yell: :OMG: :OMG: :OMG:
Click to expand...

Sometimes I get really drunk and leave Smileys all over the place, too. :tickled: woah, there I go; someone take my keys

Anyhow, out of curiosity, was that a real amplifier in that clip, Morningstar?
 
No Gruesome, it was a v-amp 2. I just noticed the delay was set in the preset, perhaps that's what made it to sound a bit more ugly, despite my bad playing and equipment.

Anyway, to have a tight sound, try this:

Mid almost all the way through, Bass & Treble both pointing the same position in the middle, like 12 o' clock and reduce the gain a bit. Remember, the bands like fear factory, get those tight & punchy results in their mixes due to double-tracking and some other studio tricks and expensive gear, that's at least what I was told.

Bye :)
 
so what do you guys think is the best amp out there for absolute tightness?

every jmp-1 clip I hear is always extremely tight so jmp-1's are starting to get my interest- any other amps that are tighter/better?

I quessing line6 should be the tightest really shouldn't it considering it's digital and all!? I'm borrowing a friends hd147 at the moment and it's okay but not really much tighter than my 5150 :hotjump:
 
jamesboyd:

The ideal rig for unlimited tight guitar tones would have both a JMP-1 and a PSA-1 (or a POD if you like, for that boogie tone), they both complement each other so well. The only thing about them is that they both need a 31-band EQ and/or a BBE Sonic Max to sound awesome.

All I have to say to anyone thinking about going 'rack', be careful!! It's crippling to your wallet!! I've spent just over £1200 on my rig and I've only just started!!
 
yeah I hear ya man, having said that there is a psa-1 going for cheap locally that I'm very interested in- have you ever done/heard any direct recordings done with the psa-1? I don't know if it has the microphone and cabinet emulations like the podxt?

I would prefer to just get a head but I've never found a head that out of the box is as tight or as versatile as a preamp- if anyone knows of any let me know :D

put it this way i tried out a triaixs the other day through a 2:90 and it just smoked any boggie head I've played :headbang:
 
yeah it's definately versatile but there's something about line 6 heads that just sounds totally wrong to me :erk:

sure you can get some great tones *but* i still don't think it holds a candle to just a normal solid-state amp let alone a tube head.

gotta get me a jmp-1 I think :cool:
 
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