Interesting review of ProgPower USA on metalcrypt.com
- Thread starter Elnimio
- Start date
Sound quality is bad at most metal shows, and the reason is stupid. Pop artists and country artists with the same budgets for live performances do much better. And I know metal can sound good, because it sounds good on the album! But since it's a metal show and metal shows have to suck or else they wouldn't be metal shows, it has to be earsplitting and blinding or else it's not metal.
I hope someday some band will take a chance and turn it down to about the decibel level of a Jimmy Buffett show and let the instruments breathe. Especially prog bands where there are a lot of subtleties that get missed due to the overwhelming volume.
There's a reason why the best reviewed bands at Progpower tend to be bands that are mainly just straight ahead without much keyboards. They sound the best cranked up to 11. Prog bands sound like a mess at that volume.
I hope someday some band will take a chance and turn it down to about the decibel level of a Jimmy Buffett show and let the instruments breathe. Especially prog bands where there are a lot of subtleties that get missed due to the overwhelming volume.
There's a reason why the best reviewed bands at Progpower tend to be bands that are mainly just straight ahead without much keyboards. They sound the best cranked up to 11. Prog bands sound like a mess at that volume.
I used to believe in the "If it's too loud..." cliché, but I'm rethinking that position. TSO used to crank it all the way up, but have turned it down in the last four years, and I have to admit it sounds better. Nightwish sounded better than any show I've ever heard at the Masq, and their volume was lower than any other show I've ever been to there.
The first half of the first song at the latest Blind Guardian show sounded great, and Hansi was crystal clear. Then the sound guy turned the volume of everything up to 10. Hansi became barely audible, and the backing vox mics might as well have been turned off.
It's also not true that there's no such thing as perfect sound. I've seen a lot of Metal and Hard Rock shows that have had it. The Scorpions everytime. TSO as mentioned. Savatage both times. Cinderella, Saxon, Alice Cooper, Aerosmith, Judas Priest, Def Leppard, and Queensryche come to mind. Most of the bands at PPUSA have good sound, but some have been perfect: Wuthering Heights, Brainstorm, Edguy (V), Orphaned Land, Therion, Jorn, Firewind, Primal Fear, and a few others were perfect.
That's a wide range of styles, a wide range of venues as far as indoor, outdoor, and size. It can be done.
The first half of the first song at the latest Blind Guardian show sounded great, and Hansi was crystal clear. Then the sound guy turned the volume of everything up to 10. Hansi became barely audible, and the backing vox mics might as well have been turned off.
It's also not true that there's no such thing as perfect sound. I've seen a lot of Metal and Hard Rock shows that have had it. The Scorpions everytime. TSO as mentioned. Savatage both times. Cinderella, Saxon, Alice Cooper, Aerosmith, Judas Priest, Def Leppard, and Queensryche come to mind. Most of the bands at PPUSA have good sound, but some have been perfect: Wuthering Heights, Brainstorm, Edguy (V), Orphaned Land, Therion, Jorn, Firewind, Primal Fear, and a few others were perfect.
That's a wide range of styles, a wide range of venues as far as indoor, outdoor, and size. It can be done.
I saw the Scorpions once in one of the best venues around, a great theater, and all I heard was vocals, bass, and drums. The guitars were pretty much nonexistant. I still enjoyed it because of the novelty of being at a Scorpions concert when I was only 19, but today I'm a lot more discerning. And having been to pop concerts with perfect sound, yet still loud enough to give your ears a little buzz when you were out. Metal shows have muddy sound more often than not and your ears ring something fierce afterwards.
So Nightwish is a little quieter? That's interesting. Most metal bands, probably because they don't know any better, just crank it. They should all have to go Cyndi Lauper or Madonna concerts.
So Nightwish is a little quieter? That's interesting. Most metal bands, probably because they don't know any better, just crank it. They should all have to go Cyndi Lauper or Madonna concerts.
Mr. Zane of HW
Member
Sorry, but I thought VS fucking ruled that night. It's power metal, it ain't always pretty, but I love it.
rms
Active Member
Here's my feeling.
Why would he pay the tickets and then complain about the bands? That's just stupid. I don't think this is real.
Does Glenn even have control over liquor charge? Wouldn't it be the person who owns Center Stage?! And this more or less seems like an alcoholic who didn't get his fix and made a rant. Personally. I spent way more cash than he did to get there and I am not complaining. If I didnt like the bands I just wouldn't go, why complain!?
Why would he pay the tickets and then complain about the bands? That's just stupid. I don't think this is real.
Does Glenn even have control over liquor charge? Wouldn't it be the person who owns Center Stage?! And this more or less seems like an alcoholic who didn't get his fix and made a rant. Personally. I spent way more cash than he did to get there and I am not complaining. If I didnt like the bands I just wouldn't go, why complain!?
Well, this is a weird day/week.
Earlier this week, Lord Requiem complained to me about some reviewers and about quality (which was more a matter of differing opinions), but I'm not here to wash the site's laundry in public - I'm just putting this post into context.
Earlier today I was taking a long walk, trying out my new winter boots in the nice few centimeters of wet snow we got over the past couple of days, and got to thinking about his complaints about so-called quality, and the only constant was the ProgPowerUSA editorial/review (you guys saw the editorial part, but there was a review in the same spirit - and same author, incidentally.) Now I don't want to go at lengths here, but I was never too comfortable putting that stuff online when I got it (and this was an edited version - the original had more name-calling etc... that I asked him to tone down a little, among other things.)
- I didn't like the fact that he was reviewing a 2-day event without even having attended a full day
- I hated the name-calling
- I had some problems with the bitching about merchandising - I know organizing these events is time and money-consuming (a friend of mine lost more than $20,000 organising local shows.)
So before the end of my walk, I had decided to take down both the editorial and the review - at least they would stop bothering me, and that's that. Incidentally, here I am checking my site's stats and I see that one of the high-ranking referring sites is actually this thread - so I checked it out and saw Glenn's reply - the DVD and big-screen thing were enough to confirm that I had made the correct decision of taking those down. Mind you, they shouldn't have gone up in the first place, but real life takes precedence over what is essentially just a hobby, and back when I got those, even though I didn't really like what I was reading, I put them up anyway against my better judgment, since I had more important things to deal with in real life and really didn't feel like going into endless arguments with the author. The editorial, prominently displayed as most recent editorial on the site's opening page, had been annoying me since day one. But I'm a big boy and I take the blame for this ever going up. I went against my better judgment because I had other, more pressing worries. OK, end melodrama.
I must say that I was very impressed by Glenn's restraint and maturity in his reply. I'd like to think I'd react the same if confronted to a similar situation. Also thanks to the posters in this thread - I was expecting some major "Metal Crypt (site) bashing", but found none of that. I was wondering why I hadn't seen ANY reaction to the review yet - usually the hate mail comes in pretty fast.:zombie: OK there was the comment about the banner ad, but keep in mind that *I* pay the bills for the site, not Lord Requiem. Beside, those ads really don't pay much (at 0 to 2 clicks per day......), and they're going down as soon as the account hits the "magic number" (hopefully before I die) and Google sends in the check (it's so close after all these months, it would be too bad to just let Google keep the dough.)
Alright, sorry for the long reply, but I figured some new readers on the thread would wonder why clicking on the link in the first post wouldn't bring them to the review. Well, it's gone, so there. With this, there's a James Bond movie about to start. See ya.
Earlier this week, Lord Requiem complained to me about some reviewers and about quality (which was more a matter of differing opinions), but I'm not here to wash the site's laundry in public - I'm just putting this post into context.
Earlier today I was taking a long walk, trying out my new winter boots in the nice few centimeters of wet snow we got over the past couple of days, and got to thinking about his complaints about so-called quality, and the only constant was the ProgPowerUSA editorial/review (you guys saw the editorial part, but there was a review in the same spirit - and same author, incidentally.) Now I don't want to go at lengths here, but I was never too comfortable putting that stuff online when I got it (and this was an edited version - the original had more name-calling etc... that I asked him to tone down a little, among other things.)
- I didn't like the fact that he was reviewing a 2-day event without even having attended a full day
- I hated the name-calling
- I had some problems with the bitching about merchandising - I know organizing these events is time and money-consuming (a friend of mine lost more than $20,000 organising local shows.)
So before the end of my walk, I had decided to take down both the editorial and the review - at least they would stop bothering me, and that's that. Incidentally, here I am checking my site's stats and I see that one of the high-ranking referring sites is actually this thread - so I checked it out and saw Glenn's reply - the DVD and big-screen thing were enough to confirm that I had made the correct decision of taking those down. Mind you, they shouldn't have gone up in the first place, but real life takes precedence over what is essentially just a hobby, and back when I got those, even though I didn't really like what I was reading, I put them up anyway against my better judgment, since I had more important things to deal with in real life and really didn't feel like going into endless arguments with the author. The editorial, prominently displayed as most recent editorial on the site's opening page, had been annoying me since day one. But I'm a big boy and I take the blame for this ever going up. I went against my better judgment because I had other, more pressing worries. OK, end melodrama.
I must say that I was very impressed by Glenn's restraint and maturity in his reply. I'd like to think I'd react the same if confronted to a similar situation. Also thanks to the posters in this thread - I was expecting some major "Metal Crypt (site) bashing", but found none of that. I was wondering why I hadn't seen ANY reaction to the review yet - usually the hate mail comes in pretty fast.:zombie: OK there was the comment about the banner ad, but keep in mind that *I* pay the bills for the site, not Lord Requiem. Beside, those ads really don't pay much (at 0 to 2 clicks per day......), and they're going down as soon as the account hits the "magic number" (hopefully before I die) and Google sends in the check (it's so close after all these months, it would be too bad to just let Google keep the dough.)
Alright, sorry for the long reply, but I figured some new readers on the thread would wonder why clicking on the link in the first post wouldn't bring them to the review. Well, it's gone, so there. With this, there's a James Bond movie about to start. See ya.
livingwithwolves
Member
- Aug 16, 2006
- 299
- 0
- 16
I can tell you that they just flipped the switch from the normal live camera to that because VS would not allow themselves to be recorded.
I don't even like Virgin Steele but thats just unprofessionall, not cool. Are all bands that don't choose to be on a dvd treated that way?
I don't even like Virgin Steele but thats just unprofessionall, not cool. Are all bands that don't choose to be on a dvd treated that way?
mëtålspëd
Umlauts ist Krieg
livingwithwolves
Member
- Aug 16, 2006
- 299
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mëtålspëd
Umlauts ist Krieg
Well the screens were not behind them, nor should they have detracted from any bands stage show. They were high up on the ceiling, on either side of the stage. You had to look at them, to notice them.
sh0kr0k
Active Member
Thanks for coming here and trying to clear the air, I think it helped. Very nice reply!
Now keep coming back and join the PP family!
Think about what the screens are for... They are showing a display of what the cameras are recording for the DVD and so the people in the back of the room who can't see very well, or perhaps are on side of the stage and can't see to the other side. Wouldn't make sense for those screens to be behind the band. The screens, like metalspeed said, are near the ceiling and very far from the stage. I hardly noticed them between bands but during the sets it was very nice to watch the great shots captured by the crew.
Sorry, but I thought VS fucking ruled that night. It's power metal, it ain't always pretty, but I love it.
Raintime and Virgin Steele were the two most anticipated bands on Friday night for me. Their setlist was okay. Their energy was fine. The execution, regardless of tracked bass, was good. The near-dead mic Defeis kept shaking and looking at as if to say "WTF?" didn't help. Not the band's fault by any means. He did also point "up" to the sound board several times, but it never got fixed.
That may be true from the vantage point of the floor. From up in the stands the ads during the set were noticable, and a little bit of a distraction. However, I'm sure it was an oversight, not retaliation against the band for some perceived snub. I don't think anyone here would believe that Glenn would deliberately "treat" any band that way. The ads being on wasn't really enough to comment on, much less use it as the focus of an irate rant.
ProgPower isn't perfect. It is however the best and most professional thing going, and when problems are identified they're usually attended to and rectified. *Notice not one complaint about spotlights this year.* I expect next year there won't be any ad issues during any performance. Every so often a band's mix can be disappointing, true, but that subject has been discussed to death.
Was this guy even at the same show that we were at?! I couldn't even begin to disagree more with his opinions. I thought this was the best PPUSA ever!
AMBR
Metal Grandma
Hmmm, sounds like he could have been one of the bootleggers who got tossed.
JK, but seriously that's an awful lotta unwarrented bitching. But that seems to be this guy's usuall MO. Whatever.
Metal 99
Member
- Sep 15, 2006
- 102
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- 16
Well i thought it was a great progpower this year as far as live music goes it can't always be perfect, i been to enough to know..But i have heard shows that were awful sounding!! this was not one of them..And Pagan's mind and Redemption as well as the others i will remember their performance forever..
Thanks for coming here and trying to clear the air, I think it helped. Very nice reply!
Now keep coming back and join the PP family!
Well, I've never been to ProgPower and am not planning to go (if only so I don't have to deal with the overzealous U.S. Customs
), so I wouldn't have much to say on this forum! 
...AndTimeBegan
Member
- Nov 6, 2007
- 543
- 0
- 16
The Fiddler
Just Do It.
Oddly, it looks like the editorial and review that you deemed unfit for you website will live on in Glenn's web home of all places.
Iced Dog
The Stormrider's Pooch
Damn right, this forum has nothing to hide and can certainly defend itself
I love it
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