AngraRULES
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I agree. I was merely trying to poke a funny comment at Jason, but you had to be his knight in the shiny armor for the day.
Manowar U.S. tour dates
- Thread starter Harvester
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I agree. I was merely trying to poke a funny comment at Jason, but you had to be his knight in the shiny armor for the day.
dcowboys311
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AeonicSlumber
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Mayhem and especially Morbid Angel are about as far from great as you can possibly get. Morbid Angel is currently one of the worst bands in the history of music due to that garbage record they put out, so you can sure say that again.
Then again maybe greatness AND numbers ARE correlated...
Artist: Morbid Angel
Venue: Mill City Nights – Minneapolis, MN
Date: Nov. 18th, 2013
Gross Sales: $4,170
Attendance/Capacity: 194 / 729
Ticket Prices: $25, $20, $10
source: billboard
dcowboys311
Member
I will ignore your comments on Mayhem as you've proven time and time again that even Justin Bieber is more fit to comment on Black Metal than you, but one bad record does not remove 15 years of greatness and 7 full lengths (8 if you count Abominations), including the greatest Death Metal record of all time, that most bands cannot even dream of touching. From a % standpoint, they are leagues ahead of Slayer, Maiden, Metallica, etc.
AeonicSlumber
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You're right. One bad record DOESN'T remove their previous efforts. Heretic was that bad record. Illud isn't a bad record - it's arguably one of the worst records ever made across all music.
And people only like Mayhem because of the controversy and mystique surrounding them in the 90's. Awful awful band. Biebs would probably agree too. He's more black metal than Mayhem's current pose-tastic formation anyways with all the edgy shit he's been doing lately, which is actually hilarious.
Anyways, this isn't about terrible records - this thread is about Manowar's attendance figures.
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dcowboys311
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This is the kind of thing that people who have never even listened to Illud say. 60% of it is mediocre to bad death metal, no different than anything else hundreds of other bands are doing right now. That industrial sounding shit makes up literally less than half the album.
dcowboys311
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AeonicSlumber
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I've listened to it a few times straight. Basically the death metal tracks as you said are bad Heretic b-sides (which in it of itself is awful), and the other tracks are fucking embarrassing. I love all pre-Heretic MA dude, but that record was an atrocity. Trey has become a weak link as evidenced by the last Terrorizer which has a great David Vincent performance and Pete is playing great on it as well.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Given there's no way to know how many people passed because of the high ticket price, there aren't many conclusions that can be drawn from the numbers. Would they have drawn more if the tickets were $25? Probably. But would they have drawn 3x as many and made as much money? I would say that's highly unlikely. Plus, from a purely analytical perspective, it's impossible to compare Manowar's numbers to another band's numbers. As the lyrics openly state, other bands play, Manowar kills. And I'm not clear how we can mathematically account for this variable in the equation.
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SF Metal Man
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Well, given that comparison Manowar wiped the floor with Amon Amarth. Manowar grossed $61,150 by themselves while a triple bill of three popular bands only grossed $35,000. That is a huge difference in Manowar's favor.
By the way, I still don't believe the 1,424 capacity. The Regency's website puts the capacity at 1,050, which looks about right to me. The Regency's room feels smaller than the Fillmore, which has a similar capacity of just over 1,000.
Edit: After more searching I see the Regency's capacity listed at 1,424 on AEG's website. Not sure why the Regency's website puts it at 1,050. It doesn't seem that big to me, but maybe 1,424 is correct.
AeonicSlumber
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Yeah but Manowar sold more records than those 3 bands combined and couldn't outdraw them, which is what I was getting at. More to the point - that's a major market city, so I'd be curious to know what they did in smaller cities. And yeah I saw you mentioned the capacity thing. I'm not sure where the discrepancy is coming from, but Billboard obviously isn't going to lie - so either the website isn't accurate or the promoters are reporting bad numbers or Billboard made a mistake.
Anywho, the point is that in fact, you could soundly make the argument that Manowar's fees are prohibitive, because you would think a band that big could do better crowds, but they can barely get 1,000 people. And keep in mind that what - this current string of US shows is their first US tour in like 10 years? So they sure as hell couldn't pull this off regularly.
SF Metal Man
Member
Since when does historic record sales correlate to concert ticket sales in the present day? Steppenwolf and Overkill have sold over 25 million records each, but I don't think either of them are going to sell 800 tickets at $75+ dollars a pop in 2014.
I've got to believe that both Manowar and the promoters have got to be happy about $61,150 gross for an evening. If they weren't we wouldn't be seeing a second round of US dates in November.
AngraRULES
Member
dcowboys311
Member
Also practically a hometown show for them. By comparison, when they played here in 2010, their first Atlanta show in I think 18 years....there were not 800 people there.
It's very well established that Manowar is bigger in Europe than the US. How many of those album sales were domestic vs overseas? How many in the past 10 years? Who cares?
AeonicSlumber
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I don't know about Steppenwolf, but Overkill's sold out the Best Buy theater here (NYC) a couple times which is about 2,500 people at $20-25 a pop - and they tour the US yearly. Now granted this is home turf, but ironically this is also home turf for Manowar and Overkill sells out a bigger venue than Manowar can draw (they played the Paramont on Long Island in 2012 on the first run, which is a MUCH smaller place. I don't know if they even sold that out. For Overkill specifically in other markets outside of the East Coast, here:
Artists: Kreator & Overkill
Venue: National Grove of Anaheim Anaheim, Calif.
Date: Nov. 15, 2013
Gross Sales: $39,393
Attendance/Capacity: 1,324 / 1,700
Ticket Prices: $85, $27.50
So yes, the package grosses less than Manowar, but it outdraws it by almost 500 more people. And it's also worth noting once again that even though Manowar is outgrossing these other tours, what's REALLY important is to take in consideration that the tickets are that steep, Manowar's fee requirements are obscene as well - which means for all we know the promoter isn't netting anything, or very little. Overkill tours regularly, so it would go against the band's interest to price out its fans and potentially lose money in the aggregate if promoters won't want to book the band on a yearly or bi-annual basis. Since Overkill is managed by its booking agent, you can be sure that Overkill *needs* to tour in order to keep people happy. Manowar cannot continue to tour this way consistently.
I don't agree. This second round of US dates is a lot of different markets and cities than the ones in 2012. I'm not exactly sure what Manowar asks for. For all we know they could ask for 80 grand a night and in that case the promoters are losing money. They could also be asking for 50 grand a night and with rider fees and other accommodations the promoter could just be breaking even. And again, these shows counting the ones in 2012 are their first shows in a looong time, so obviously this whole exercise in charging exorbitant fees is cost prohibitive for everyone involved. It's not something Manowar's going to do every year by any stretch.
Sorry if I sound like a downer. I've said a bunch of times before that I do like Manowar's early stuff. But at the same time, I call it like I see it.
AeonicSlumber
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NY is hometurf for Manowar here as well. They played Long Island in 2012, certainly not NYC which is already weird for a NY band. That screams "no NYC promoter wants to risk a $100 Manowar ticket" here.
A fair point. But either way - the point is that clearly it's a cost prohibitive ticket.
SF Metal Man
Member
For many, yes. They would have sold more tickets with a lower cost ticket. I have no doubt of that because I know some people who would have gone if it was only a $35-$40 ticket. Might have even doubled the sales. That said, they still grossed a respectable amount of money, even with the high ticket price. I am not going to say that I'm glad their ticket prices are high, because I personally think that the ticket price is too high. That said, when you say that it's a cost prohibitive ticket, it clearly isn't for 801 people in San Francisco on a weeknight. That is probably 100 more people than Saxon drew charging $25. Now, I like Manowar, but I like Saxon just as much, if not more, and I would pay a lot more than $25 to see them. In fact, if it meant they would tour twice as often I would be happy to pay double what they were charging. On the other hand, I wanted to see Tool, but passed when I saw they were charging $75 a ticket. They however sold out 2 shows at a large venue at that price. So, was Tool cost prohibitive at the same price that Manowar charged? For me, yes. For others, obviously not since they sold out 2 shows. So, it is all a relative thing. I'd much rather see Manowar than Tool. But, what really counts is the gross (either by show or by tour). With an extensive tour Manowar probably are not going to sell that many tickets at that price as a lot of people travelled to see the show. But, with the limited number of shows it looks like they did very well on a per night basis, even if they didn't sell out.
But you know, I've been spending time arguing something I really don't care about here, so I'm going to drop out of this. I do wish the tickets were cheaper, but I am glad to see Manowar touring the states again. If they come around again in November I'll probably check them out again, and whine about the ticket price once again. I just hope they change the setlist up a bit and add another 20 minutes onto the show so I don't feel like I'm being taken advantage of.
nailz
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