Shame on you, NYC

[BlackRoseMetalHeart]

the vocals are an acquired taste (<-- and I'm being kind with that assessment).

Zod

QFT. Chris' vocals aren't for everyone, although I would think that they would draw in fans of melodic death, since Chris really just growls on key. He's one of the few vocalist out there who don't use clean vocals that I can understand almost perfectly.

 

[Jasonic]

I was being VERY general in my GD VS Dream Evil discussion. Once again though, think outside the box a bit. If you go to Prog Power and discuss metal on forums like this, your chances of discovering a band like Grave Digger are quite large.

I am speaking of the masses though.

Unless you have knowledge of the underground power metal scene, you will not just stumble across Grave Digger.

Dream Evil has their video on Cabel stations, plus Century Media does a LOT more promotion than Nuc Blast did for Grave Digger.

 

[Jasonic]

They've had zero exposure here.

That's not completely true.
In the 80's, they were pretty well known in the US, often mentioned in the same breath as Helloween (Walls of Jericho era), Running Wild, etc.

All the zines had ads for their albums.

You could find their records at most stores, etc...

They just never crossed over popularity in the states, as say Kreator or Helloween did, due to not touring.

The problem is, they DID get a second chance being on Nuclear Blast. IMHO, NB treated them as a throw back band, and kept them as "another 80's band from Europe who pops up at the summer festivals"

Now, I don't know GD's situation. Maybe they never wanted to do a full world tour... I really don't know. From a fan's perspective though, it didn't seem they got the push they deserved.

 

[DoomsdayZach]

You may have read where I posted that the VIP tickets saw a hike from $55 on the BBKings site to $100 when clicking on the "Buy tickets" link to Ticketbastard.

FTR, I am 24 and will be 25 in September.

FTR, I also like Dream Evil, but didn't stumble onto them at a store like Best Buy. I believe I found them at ProgPower or heard them on a Monsters of Metal Video compilation, probably one of the same ones that has Grave Digger on it (although I'm not positive about that part). Point is some of us younger metalheads just do stumble upon stuff like Grave Digger. And some of us are able enough and committed enough to show them the support whenever we can and when we know they need it.

I think the point was that thanks to guitar hero, Dragonforce is really popular and dream theater is a big name band for the genre, so a casual fan who doesn't go on forums (especially the progpower forum) and knows metal from Ozzfest and Headbangers Ball is going to find dream evil a lot easier than grave digger. And he's right, it makes sense, both in store placement and just general exposure. Dream Evil is right next to two bands that are popular with the metal crowd and the less hardcore fans alike, whereas grave digger aren't near any particularly popular bands on the shelves... if they're on the shelves at all haha.

 

[Diabolik]

I went to ALEHORN OF POWER FESTIVAL a couple years back in Chicago. It was headlined by MANILLA ROAD and SLOUGH FEG. Hell, on paper, you would think that would draw over 1000 people!!! At best, 300 were there.

300.....were we at the same show??? more like 150 at best.

 

[Jasonic]

Exactly!
Much easier for someone who isn't as aware of the underground to stumble on Dream Evil, via videos, magazines, or seeing their discs in stores.

Also, the said Dream Evil gig was in LA, and hosted by Century Media. I would guess there was a lot more promotion too.

 

[Jasonic]

300.....were we at the same show??? more like 150 at best.

You think? Ok, I am not going to argue this one.
I am not the best at guessing crowd sizes.
Point being is that on paper, MANY shows would be predicted to draw big numbers, but don't.

I said it before and say it again.
It is dangerous to assume that a band that seems popular online (Esp on an underground metal forum) would equate to big ticket sales.

 

[Stingray11214]

There was also another factor: For several months, this has been advertised as being at the Highline. Even BB Kings had that statement on their site for a long time. Some probably went to the Highline only to be turned away. In plain simple English, this was a cluster from Day One.

Who was the local support?

 

[General Zod]

That's not completely true.

I was speaking more about the younger market, than the older market. They've never had a video on MTV and they haven't been on tour as a support act.

Zod

 

[...AndTimeBegan]

Which makes me wonder... why the hell is it that Kamelot and Epica was like 30 fuckin' dollars when a bill like Hate Eternal, Krisiun, Decapitated and some other death metal band are never more than like 15 bucks at the door? Seriously, death metal shows are always infinately cheaper with more touring bands on the bills. Makes no sense whatsoever to me, but i can't really be fucked to care much. Just an observation.

More kids come out to the death metal shows than power/prog shows. Therefore venues charge more on the prog/power shows to turn a profit.

 

[DoomsdayZach]

More kids come out to the death metal shows than power/prog shows. Therefore venues charge more on the prog/power shows to turn a profit.

That is definitely not true in seattle. My best guess is because a lot of the power/prog tours skip here. Death metal shows usually draw 100 kids, maybe more if it's a crossover appeal with the hardcore/emo crowd, but rarely sells out.

The most crowded shows i've been to are the following:
Kreator
Destruction
Overkill
Sonata Arctica
Kamelot
Blind Guardian
Iced Earth/Jag Panzer
Stratovarius
HammerFall/Edguy

The first three are thrash and lean more towards extreme metal, but i'm just saying that you go with a band like Suffocation who gets magazine covers all over so their popularity is indisputable, they can never pull a crowd half the size of power metal bands.

And trust me, seattle doesn't feel like a straight up heavy/power city at all. I have no idea why this happens

 

[Magius]

That is definitely not true in seattle. My best guess is because a lot of the power/prog tours skip here. Death metal shows usually draw 100 kids, maybe more if it's a crossover appeal with the hardcore/emo crowd, but rarely sells out.

The most crowded shows i've been to are the following:
Kreator
Destruction
Overkill
Sonata Arctica
Kamelot
Blind Guardian
Iced Earth/Jag Panzer
Stratovarius
HammerFall/Edguy

The first three are thrash and lean more towards extreme metal, but i'm just saying that you go with a band like Suffocation who gets magazine covers all over so their popularity is indisputable, they can never pull a crowd half the size of power metal bands.

And trust me, seattle doesn't feel like a straight up heavy/power city at all. I have no idea why this happens

Interesting. Here it's the way ...ATB stated. Power Metal definately draws an older crowd than Death.
In regards to Grave Digger I wouldn't expect the under 25 crowd to make much of an impact, nor would I expect them to for Dream Evil either.
Still, 100 people in NYC is, as Zach said, a hard number to get my head around.

 

[MetalRose]

I would have gone if:

1. I had a sitter for my son.
2. It wasn't on a Sunday night (bringing me back home around 8 am then straight to work)
3. I had known that all you lovely folks would be there.
4. I had known of the concert to start out with.

Hope you all had a good time though!

-Metal

 

[Kaosaur]

NYC is my home turf and I didn't go.

 

[Big Al 2112]

Grave Digger is awesome. They were very well received at BW&BK a few years back. I didn't even know about this show. I could not have gone since I live nowhere close but I wish I could have been there. I think if GD played ProgPower, and people watched it, they would gain a lot of new fans. I can't stand rough vocals but I don't really mind Chris B.'s vocals at all.

 

[War Ensemble]

I believe I said I my prior post that they played BWBK festival a few years ago ... 2004 I think it was. That was the first and only other time that they played the US from what I understand.

That's another show Nick and I will forever kick our own asses for missing - Grave Digger, Saxon, Brainstorm, Doro, etc. Too bad we found out about it when Nick read a review of the fest the Sunday after it happened.

Saxon was not at BWBK 6-Pack 2004. I was at the show. I've never seen Saxon live and would like an opportunity to do so. The BWBK 6-Pack did not provide me that opportunity.

The lineup as I remember it:

Night 1: Katatonia, Grave Digger, Doro, Seven Witches, E-Force, Shadows Keep, & Lilitu

Night 2: Metal Church, Primal Fear, Dismember, Shok Paris, Flotsam & Jetsam, Brainstorm, & an opening band that I don't remember.

 

[War Ensemble]

Grave Digger is awesome. They were very well received at BW&BK a few years back.

I agree. I'm guessing that there was around 400-500 people watching Grave Digger. After they finished, most of the crowd left. I think I watched Katatonia with about 40 other people.

 

[PriestMetalGods]

I really wanted to see the Grave Digger show last night, however i've been stuck home with a horrible throat infection. Any way you slice it, that turnout sounded like it was downright bad. Its totally expected I think though. I remember when Blind Guardian first hit the area in 2002, they played Birch Hill to maybe only a 100 more by the time their set came on. I think a lot of the people in the previous posts are right though..with better support the tour would have been a helluva lot better. I think this is the main reason why the Euro power metal bands do much better now is because they come with great support acts. This kind of reminds me of the UDO/Saxon tour of 2000. I think there had to be about 50-75 people on those nights at Birch Hill and Lamours. Both bands still seem very hesitant to come back to the states to this day because of it. Actually come to think of it, I went to a lot of empty Lamours shows back around 2000. Helstar and Virgin Steele were both very slim, hitting about the 100 range at best. Anyway, I hope Grave Digger decides to come back again for a full scale tour with proper support. Maybe they can bring a certain German "pirate" metal band to carry some of the weight. Too bad guys.

 

[TheGraveDigger]

I was at last nights show and despite the poor turn out it was a show I will never forget. I write for MetalAsylum.net and got the opportunity to join Rich from the website around 5pm to interview the band. As we entered into the main room the band was out on stage doing their sound check and the excitement truly kicked in as one of my all time favorite bands was standing before me getting ready to deliver an amazing show. A short while later we sat down with Chris backstage for a brief interview which will be posted on MetalAsylum very soon. Chris mentioned that he does not want to come to the United States to make tons of money and just wants to play for Grave Digger fans but the band also cannot layout all the expensive costs that it takes to get here. BB Kings helped pay for this show and their trip was covered 100%. I am assuming that more people bought tickets for this show and did not show up for whatever reason because Chris told us that BB's said presales were rather strong and he was expected a very decent turnout. Chris mentioned during the interview that they are doing this 1 show right now and would like to return in 2009 for 2 or 3 shows and we will see where things go from there.

After the interview we headed over to Apple Bees for dinner and when we returned close to the end of Arctic Flame's set we were very disappointed to see the amount of people there. There was about 100 people there, possibly a couple more as I too am bad with judging crowd numbers. The band did not seem too discouraged upon taking the stage and absolutely played their hearts out giving us all 110%. I truly hope this does not deter the bands plans to come back and that a return is still possible. Perhaps a slot on the Chicago Powerfest next year would do them a lot of good and they can once again play BB Kings and maybe another stop or two. I was also there at BWBK a few years ago and that too was just amazing. There was atleast 600 people there for that one and it was a great US debut for them. Last night was their second or third US show depending who you ask. Chris told us that their show in Phoenix, Arizona following BWBK was more or less a suprise birthday party for someone and I do not believe they played a full set there like they did at BWBK.

If last night was the last time I saw them in the US then that really sucks. I would love to go see them in Germany one day, perhaps with Running Wild as well another band I would love to see. I am assuming that presales for this show were rather good since Tankard was scheduled to play BB's next Sunday and the show was just cancelled which I am assuming had to do with poor ticket sales. Would have made much sense for Tankard to open for Grave Digger as they are both from Germany and a few more fans from the thrash crowd would have been there. I really wish that more Grave Digger fans in the area could have made it out to this show as the band could have really used a few extra bodies in the crowd. I bought my ticket months in advance before I was included on the guest list. I work with a kid who eat, sleeps, and breaths all kinds of heavy metal. He did not know who Grave Digger was curious to know what they were all about. I gave him my ticket at no cost told him to just show up and see what he thinks. He was instantly a fan so I am happy to know that they atleast made one brand new fan last night and pleased everyone else who was in attendance.

 

[BlackRoseMetalHeart]

By the way MetalHeart your comment about Jack Frost was just fucking brilliant! I know I stood up for Deadly Sins when it came out and I still think its a good album.

I think you meant me (Fixed.) I mainly have issues with the guy because he made the comment to me and Nick, "Ha, well it's not Savatage without me." One tour, dude. You were on one tour. Not even an album. It irritates me to even think about that guy sometimes. I have heard from other folks that he's ego is too big for words though.