Dolamite S. Biffle
Biffliest Person Ever
There really is no point to disposable cameras for the stage area, I took 3 rolls and all black. Big waste of 30 dollars (camera and developing)!!
The no digital camera rule.....
- Thread starter Bryant
- Start date
Barking Pumpkin
Member
- Aug 31, 2004
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Just think.....less than 200 years ago copyright didn't even exist and it didn't matter what composers thought. I guess we've come a long way. 
dargormudshark
Senior Member
Look at it this way Glenn, atleast you aren't the promoter for woodstock '69. Your attendees are just complaining about Digital Cameras, The guy had to put up with people wanting to get in free and breaking the barricades. Maybe you could allow digital cams and hire the hell's angels to walk around.
kittybeast
Member
Let me clear some things up on my behalf. First of all, I don't see how it's illogical to say, "If you don't like it, why don't you do it better?" If anyone knows their ProgPower history, that's what made Glenn start this whole idea up in the first place. As for the comment about not liking food from a restaurant, I wouldn't just go and start up my own food joint. However, I'm not going to constantly piss and moan about it like some people would. I would simply find an alternative restaurant, as they are in high abundance and at least one of them is bound to make food the way I like it. I wasn't aiming my statement to everybody. That was for Barking Pumpkin, a guy who has intelligent and articulate agruments, but always feels the need to wave his "debate dick" over our faces. BP, I'm pretty sure that Ulver's fanbase is no bigger than Conception's, as I doubt they're headlining arena shows in Norway. As for anyone who thinks I kiss Glenn's ass, I wouldn't hesitate to state a difference of opinion with him if I had one. I personally hope to never see Evergrey at this festival again, and I originally had a very negative view about that fund for Aki's flight to Atlanta for PPVI. Glenn doesn't/didn't see eye to eye with me on those topics, but I'm not going to tell him to fuck off because of it. Just because I have more positive things to say about this festival than negatives, it doesn't prove that I'm some sort of "Glenn groupie." I wish there was a simpler solution to this whole ordeal. The truth is, however, that some people will be dissatisfied with whatever decision is made. I'm taking my bow out of this.
Stay metal. Never rust.
Met-Al
Stay metal. Never rust.
Met-Al
Barking Pumpkin
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Met-Al said:
Ulver don't tour, but Let me know when Conception are up for a Norwegian Grammy. And I noticed that it's Garm from Ulver who got the interview for the UltimateMetal Interviews section, not anyone from Conception. Ulver are not only black metal legends, but now famous for their experimental music. I highly doubt Conception have a bigger fanbase.
Dark One
The Tainted Dogma
The Fiddler
Just Do It.
Barking Pumpkin said:Just think.....less than 200 years ago copyright didn't even exist and it didn't matter what composers thought. I guess we've come a long way.
And there weren't tape recorders, video recorders, CD players, stereo systems or albums or videos to sell.
Barking Pumpkin
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The Fiddler said:
There are still scores and performances though. That's a large reason why so many now-famous classical composers were poor. Think about now how disgustingly rich people like Andrew Lloyd Weber are. If anyone wants to do any of his plays, they have to pay him lots and lots of money in royalties. Scores of his music that are sold are the same way, he gets royalties on them because he has copyright on the compositions. That didn't exist until relatively recently in history, also correlating with the "music as a job" title that was what music used to be mainly.
And by the same token bands now don't get paid to write (in the "popular" world). They have to make money after the fact. Classical compositions were commissioned and they literally "bought" the music. Now writers are allowed to retain rights for their music, but they have to get people to buy it. That point isn't really applicable because of the separate "classical" and "popular" genres we have now, which didn't really exist in the time I'm talking about. Still interesting to think about though.
Bryan316
METAL... nuff said!
This is the thread that never ends
It just goes on and on my friends
Some people started arguing not knowing what it was
And then they kept on arguing forever just because
This is the thread that never ends
It just goes on and on my friends
Some people started arguing not knowing what it was
And then they kept on arguing forever just because
This is the thread that never ends
It just goes on and on my friends
Some people started arguing not knowing what it was
And then they kept on arguing forever just because....
*BLAM*
...
It just goes on and on my friends
Some people started arguing not knowing what it was
And then they kept on arguing forever just because
This is the thread that never ends
It just goes on and on my friends
Some people started arguing not knowing what it was
And then they kept on arguing forever just because
This is the thread that never ends
It just goes on and on my friends
Some people started arguing not knowing what it was
And then they kept on arguing forever just because....
*BLAM*
...
Peeps;
This thread was someone basically telling Glenn where to go regarding the "no digital camera" rule. Bryant, the person who started this thread, was subsequently banned for the way he presented himself on this issue.
That said, Let me give my view on all this. First of all, anyone on this board who can stand there and say "I have never listened to a bootleg recording" is a first-class liar. We ALL have, at one time or another, listened to boots. There have been bootleg recordings since the moment that Thomas Edison recited "Mary had a little lamb" into the first phonograph. What is the difference between then and now?
Back in the day, when metal was young, we all listened to boots on cassette, or crudely made LP copies. How many of you first heard Maiden, Priest, Celtic Frost or Accept via a recorded cassette? How many have listened to even more obscure bands like Mama's Boys, Razor, or Chateau? Many of these bands would never have even seen the light of dawn in this country had it not been for the underground tape networks. Did the labels care? Yes and no. The tape networks allowed the labels to spend less on promotion because they were getting it for FREE. Second, there were no worries about losing money because the quality of the boot cassettes were not the greatest, so people bought the LP anyway. The labels DID frown on the concert front, and unless the band was the Grateful Dead, you would get arrested for recording the show.
What has happened since? Answer: the transfer from LP to CD had an unexpected consequence. If you recorded from CD to cassette, there would be no problem because the quality of the recording would be the same as from LP to cassette. However, when the CD burner came out for PC's, something happened: The recording would come out the same as the CD it copied from. Hence, one could not tell the copy from the real recording. The problem became endemic with the formation of Napster and other file sharing sites. The labels became behind the ball, and did not know how to handle it. How could you make money if you can get the file from the web, and burn your CD from the web, which would be the same quality as an $18 CD? This is why Metallica sold out and went after fans in the Napster case. Hence, all the craziness regarding digital cameras and recordings.
Now, I will not stand here and defend Bryant's inexcusable actions. Glenn busts his tail every year to put this event on, and should command anyone's respect. ProgPower would not exist if he was not meticulous in his preparations for this event. That said, I understand Bryant's frustration. ProgPower is perceived to be anti-Corporate Label. That means against the major labels that spit on bands like Strato, Nightwish, Angra, and After Forever. That means you can basically have some liberties with the videos, pictures, and even tape recorders. But, with this rule, it could be argued that ProgPower is bowing to the Corporate Labels, which is ProgPower's sworn enemy.
Now, I know people will think I am nuts, let me give you another example. I know many of us rag on Chris Clai over the collapse of his tour. However, he made a public statement regarding all this that made sense. It is NOT about the bands, but about the LABELS. Bands make very little money from CD royalties. I think the average act makes 4-5% off every sale. Most of their monies come from touring, merchandise and sponsorships. That said, if a band sell 500,000 copies, they would make barely $80K. I believe that is the industry standard. If I am wrong, please correct me. Now, if the bands managed to get rid of the boots, how much would they REALLY benefit from this. The bands would still get 20 cents per CD sold, and the labels would make millions. So,the labels continue to screw around with the artists.
In closing, though I do not make a habit of bringing cameras to a show, nor would I do so. That is a personal choice. But, I believe it might hurt ProgPower's heritage if they continue down the "No digital" slope.
Peace,
Ray C.
This thread was someone basically telling Glenn where to go regarding the "no digital camera" rule. Bryant, the person who started this thread, was subsequently banned for the way he presented himself on this issue.
That said, Let me give my view on all this. First of all, anyone on this board who can stand there and say "I have never listened to a bootleg recording" is a first-class liar. We ALL have, at one time or another, listened to boots. There have been bootleg recordings since the moment that Thomas Edison recited "Mary had a little lamb" into the first phonograph. What is the difference between then and now?
Back in the day, when metal was young, we all listened to boots on cassette, or crudely made LP copies. How many of you first heard Maiden, Priest, Celtic Frost or Accept via a recorded cassette? How many have listened to even more obscure bands like Mama's Boys, Razor, or Chateau? Many of these bands would never have even seen the light of dawn in this country had it not been for the underground tape networks. Did the labels care? Yes and no. The tape networks allowed the labels to spend less on promotion because they were getting it for FREE. Second, there were no worries about losing money because the quality of the boot cassettes were not the greatest, so people bought the LP anyway. The labels DID frown on the concert front, and unless the band was the Grateful Dead, you would get arrested for recording the show.
What has happened since? Answer: the transfer from LP to CD had an unexpected consequence. If you recorded from CD to cassette, there would be no problem because the quality of the recording would be the same as from LP to cassette. However, when the CD burner came out for PC's, something happened: The recording would come out the same as the CD it copied from. Hence, one could not tell the copy from the real recording. The problem became endemic with the formation of Napster and other file sharing sites. The labels became behind the ball, and did not know how to handle it. How could you make money if you can get the file from the web, and burn your CD from the web, which would be the same quality as an $18 CD? This is why Metallica sold out and went after fans in the Napster case. Hence, all the craziness regarding digital cameras and recordings.
Now, I will not stand here and defend Bryant's inexcusable actions. Glenn busts his tail every year to put this event on, and should command anyone's respect. ProgPower would not exist if he was not meticulous in his preparations for this event. That said, I understand Bryant's frustration. ProgPower is perceived to be anti-Corporate Label. That means against the major labels that spit on bands like Strato, Nightwish, Angra, and After Forever. That means you can basically have some liberties with the videos, pictures, and even tape recorders. But, with this rule, it could be argued that ProgPower is bowing to the Corporate Labels, which is ProgPower's sworn enemy.
Now, I know people will think I am nuts, let me give you another example. I know many of us rag on Chris Clai over the collapse of his tour. However, he made a public statement regarding all this that made sense. It is NOT about the bands, but about the LABELS. Bands make very little money from CD royalties. I think the average act makes 4-5% off every sale. Most of their monies come from touring, merchandise and sponsorships. That said, if a band sell 500,000 copies, they would make barely $80K. I believe that is the industry standard. If I am wrong, please correct me. Now, if the bands managed to get rid of the boots, how much would they REALLY benefit from this. The bands would still get 20 cents per CD sold, and the labels would make millions. So,the labels continue to screw around with the artists.
In closing, though I do not make a habit of bringing cameras to a show, nor would I do so. That is a personal choice. But, I believe it might hurt ProgPower's heritage if they continue down the "No digital" slope.
Peace,
Ray C.
AMBR
Metal Grandma
Bryan316
METAL... nuff said!
TheWhisper
Cobra Kai Never Dies
I tried reading this from the beginning but kind of glanced as i went on, havent been here in awhile. My opinion is that its Glenns event and whatever he decides is best for it, then that should be fine. My question is, Are Disposable Digital Cameras going to be allowed in. CVS Drug store sells them for 11 bucks and they have no video capibilities at all and take a pretty decent pic and you can delete the last pic you took so if you take a bad one you still have a chance to delete unlike a regular disposible.
aztattooedsean
crazed tattooed metalhead
Barking Pumpkin said:Bootlegging doesn't refer to taping shows and selling them on Ebay, as umm.....everyone on this forum would have you believe. The vast majority is where fans tape shows, and then they trade/distribute those shows among other fans. Ever heard of "tape trading?" Well, that's what it is. Now that the internet is around, it's just a little different.
And for every prissy technology-paranoid band/person (Glenn Danzig) who don't like them, there is a band who supports them. Two big names would be Iron Maiden and Dream Theater.
I'm not saying I support the bootleggers at Prog-Power, they shouldn't be doing it, and it's highly obnoxious of them that Glenn felt he had to remove digital camera privileges because of it.
Black Crowes were always one to allow people to tape at their shows.
DREAMSCAPE 777
Wolfgang
its not true that the bands earn their money only by selling merchandise article! we as a little band get much more money for the cd's than only cents...
any unlicensed copy of the cd's hurts the bands. and nowadays a lot of the bands are thinking on making dvd's - a bootleg version with bad sound, bad picture (1 camera) is not a promotion its the reverse of promotion!
so personally we accept the new technology because we don't think that we can do anything against it, but we are a band that accepts also that we don't get enough money to quit our daily jobs...
and i just want you to know that you shouldn't define down the effect of this technology to your favorite bands!
best regards!
wolfgang (dreamscape's guitarplayer)
any unlicensed copy of the cd's hurts the bands. and nowadays a lot of the bands are thinking on making dvd's - a bootleg version with bad sound, bad picture (1 camera) is not a promotion its the reverse of promotion!
so personally we accept the new technology because we don't think that we can do anything against it, but we are a band that accepts also that we don't get enough money to quit our daily jobs...
and i just want you to know that you shouldn't define down the effect of this technology to your favorite bands!
best regards!
wolfgang (dreamscape's guitarplayer)
Bryan316
METAL... nuff said!
I wanna be a concert videographer.
I was taping a local band, and was having a blast filming them from goofy angles, zooming in for certain parts of their songs, getting the emphasis...
...that's the one cool thing about bootlegging videos. I'd say I've seen some pretty badass moments caught on tape cuz some fan caught a good angle or whatever, that's different than a tripod's point of view.
But bands still don't make money off those tapes getting sold on evilBay.
Wolfgang... if you guys make a DVD... please... hire a few kids or close friends to just tape all the crazy shit going on in the audience, or let them wander around and get different angles. It's the random stuff that's always fun to watch!
I was taping a local band, and was having a blast filming them from goofy angles, zooming in for certain parts of their songs, getting the emphasis...
...that's the one cool thing about bootlegging videos. I'd say I've seen some pretty badass moments caught on tape cuz some fan caught a good angle or whatever, that's different than a tripod's point of view.
But bands still don't make money off those tapes getting sold on evilBay.
Wolfgang... if you guys make a DVD... please... hire a few kids or close friends to just tape all the crazy shit going on in the audience, or let them wander around and get different angles. It's the random stuff that's always fun to watch!
booB
Señor Member
TheWhisper
Cobra Kai Never Dies
Lesbian porn is always the right call.booB said:or, go the Manowar route, and put lesbian porn on your DVD.
