What does Blackguard do when not touring? (aka the thread that won't die)
- Thread starter Palabra de Dios
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nomisofsiman
Member
Jasonic
Doom On!
Diabolik
Member
why? so we can go back to Firebreath posting youtube videos. This is a fun thread.
Jasonic
Doom On!
What ya gonna call that?
THE LITTLE ENGINE THAT COULDN'T TOUR 2011????
I would go, but I'll catch em all next time (in about 2 weeks).
Element_man
Lord of the Realm
I'm really late jumping on this party and there's no way I'm gonna read through all the pages, but here's my take on it.
I, like many in this thread I think have been to many shows in Edmonton (a city of about a million people) with bands like Blackguard, Warbringer, Bonded by Blood and Powerglove opening. I know a lot of people in my provinces' "scene" due to my band Samandriel and our activity, of all shapes, sizes, walks of life and age groups so I've had many chances to talk with people about these openers. What I've found is this:
The people who make jokes about Blackguard and show a lack of interest in the band are typically metal fans who spend a lot of time looking into underground bands, discussing bands on sites like Metal-archives, etc. Bsaically, these people have steeped themselves in tons of metal and have really narrowed down (perhaps "refined"?) their tastes. These are the guys who rave to their friends online about bands like Atlantean Kodex, Manilla Road, and even newer bands like Orphaned Land, Seventh Wonder and Myrath.
Then you have the rest. Metal fans who don't really look beyond the bands they see on tour, stuff on the shelves of HMV, shirts on other people at the mall, what their friends recommend them, or the bands featured on popular metal documentaries. I shouldn't have to tell any of you that this crowd is much bigger than the one I described above.
I've noticed this is typically with the younger metal fans. When I was a kid, I was the odd one out. I spent my time practising piano, jamming with a band and hunched over a keyboard, discovering underground bands both new and old and arguing about them over the internet. The rest of the kids I knew had other priorities, like making the grades, going to hockey practise, scoring with chicks, working on their cars and going to parties. Very few metal fans my age put the time and effort into discovering new music like I did.
Now, these kids are all of age and going to bars and clubs to watch Nevermore, Sonata Arctica, Dragonforce, Epica and Deicide. The "seasoned" metal fans opt to stand in the back critically with their patch vests and import beers waiting for the headliners, while the younger fans go utterly nuts over the openers, who to them are "new,underground, up-and-coming bands". Then they head to their merch table, sign up for their mailing lists (VERY IMPORTANT!) and maybe buy something. The seed has been planted.
Blackguard isn't trying to make fans out of metal fans like those who visit this board, they are making an impression on the younger crowd that only knows what they see. We're talking widespread metal appeal to the youth here, not targeting a niche group of vinyl traders. And let's be honest, it's the kids that will make or break your career. They have the spare cash and the word of mouth power. I've talked with some of these kids, and most of them just love Blackguard, and make sure they show up early to see them every time they come through town. Lots of them jumped to defend the band when I made Blackguard tour jokes around them. The way I see it, the band is making an investment right now and we probably won't see the results until the label puts them in the studio and they release a new album. Time will tell.
I for one believe that if the band members continue to stick it out, their popularity will only grow, and they will soon be able to carry a tour with their name at the top of the poster. They won't fill a stadium anytime soon, but with the way the music industry in regards to metal is moving, I don't think we're gonna see any metal bands playing stadium tours once the big guys are all dead and gone.
- Jeff
I, like many in this thread I think have been to many shows in Edmonton (a city of about a million people) with bands like Blackguard, Warbringer, Bonded by Blood and Powerglove opening. I know a lot of people in my provinces' "scene" due to my band Samandriel and our activity, of all shapes, sizes, walks of life and age groups so I've had many chances to talk with people about these openers. What I've found is this:
The people who make jokes about Blackguard and show a lack of interest in the band are typically metal fans who spend a lot of time looking into underground bands, discussing bands on sites like Metal-archives, etc. Bsaically, these people have steeped themselves in tons of metal and have really narrowed down (perhaps "refined"?) their tastes. These are the guys who rave to their friends online about bands like Atlantean Kodex, Manilla Road, and even newer bands like Orphaned Land, Seventh Wonder and Myrath.
Then you have the rest. Metal fans who don't really look beyond the bands they see on tour, stuff on the shelves of HMV, shirts on other people at the mall, what their friends recommend them, or the bands featured on popular metal documentaries. I shouldn't have to tell any of you that this crowd is much bigger than the one I described above.
I've noticed this is typically with the younger metal fans. When I was a kid, I was the odd one out. I spent my time practising piano, jamming with a band and hunched over a keyboard, discovering underground bands both new and old and arguing about them over the internet. The rest of the kids I knew had other priorities, like making the grades, going to hockey practise, scoring with chicks, working on their cars and going to parties. Very few metal fans my age put the time and effort into discovering new music like I did.
Now, these kids are all of age and going to bars and clubs to watch Nevermore, Sonata Arctica, Dragonforce, Epica and Deicide. The "seasoned" metal fans opt to stand in the back critically with their patch vests and import beers waiting for the headliners, while the younger fans go utterly nuts over the openers, who to them are "new,underground, up-and-coming bands". Then they head to their merch table, sign up for their mailing lists (VERY IMPORTANT!) and maybe buy something. The seed has been planted.
Blackguard isn't trying to make fans out of metal fans like those who visit this board, they are making an impression on the younger crowd that only knows what they see. We're talking widespread metal appeal to the youth here, not targeting a niche group of vinyl traders. And let's be honest, it's the kids that will make or break your career. They have the spare cash and the word of mouth power. I've talked with some of these kids, and most of them just love Blackguard, and make sure they show up early to see them every time they come through town. Lots of them jumped to defend the band when I made Blackguard tour jokes around them. The way I see it, the band is making an investment right now and we probably won't see the results until the label puts them in the studio and they release a new album. Time will tell.
I for one believe that if the band members continue to stick it out, their popularity will only grow, and they will soon be able to carry a tour with their name at the top of the poster. They won't fill a stadium anytime soon, but with the way the music industry in regards to metal is moving, I don't think we're gonna see any metal bands playing stadium tours once the big guys are all dead and gone.
- Jeff
skyrefuge
Member
Are you just being an ass, knowingly putting words in our mouths that we never said, or are you truly that bad at comprehending what we've been saying?
Yes, it will have an effect on your fest, but you've lost the subject once again. We aren't talking about negative effects on your fest, we're talking about effects on the bands. As long as you paid them, playing your fest is still a positive thing for them.
Funny thing is, while you're trying to mock us here, this part is probably pretty accurate. If you would have been able to add all the numbers up, you probably wouldn't have posted it!
Each of the seven bands has collected 20 fans, 20 fans x 7 bands = 140 fans. Half of 140 (due to both inability to attend and band overlap) = 70 ticket buyers. Sounds about right to me! Actually it would be even more, if that Early Man / Evile / Bonded By Blood show (another show with all openers and no headliners) managed to draw 50!If they hadn't done all those tours and gained those 140 fans, those would be 140 people who would not have even thought of coming to your fest.
Also, the methods totally change depending on whether you're a headliner (hoping to make money from your existing fanbase) or an opener (paying money for the privilege of advertising yourself to the headliner's fans). You guys have been ignoring that major distinction.
Most of the openers on your list cannot yet realistically headline a show, and many of them will never be able to. But that doesn't mean they're stupid to try to reach that point.
Neil
Jasonic
Doom On!
Diabolik
Member
Jasonic
Doom On!
Yep, and I know you haven't read the whole thread, but I said a bunch of times that I know I am not their target audience. Still though, as a LONG time metal fan, it is hard to respect bands who jump on trends to appeal to the masses. I am not impressed at all by a band who plays unoriginal metal simply to make a career out of it. Not totally just picking on Blackguard here, BTW, as I know they have received a ton of crap in this thread.
Jasonic
Doom On!
That's actually pretty creepy, if it is true that you have heard from people that he has seen you or us at shows, but wouldn't come up to chat it up.
skyrefuge
Member
Yes, you shouldn't have to, but sadly, you do.
Excellent post, thanks for the additional perspective!
Neil
Diabolik
Member
Element Man.....I see where you are coming from. I have even thought this myself. But trying to hit that young fanbase only isnt the best way to go. Sure you may get a few fans here and there but most of these new kids go away in a year or so with very few sticking around. It is actually the people like us who buy CD's and go to shows and festivals. Sure for the quick buck it is a great thing but for the old timers and veteran fans, we see right through this.
skyrefuge
Member
Damn, if only playing hard-to-get would work as well for me with girls as it does with you guys!
Neil
Diabolik
Member
feel free to hang....you can add to the non girl gettin gang. Girls dont dig me at all.
dcowboys311
Member
Ok, I said that I was done, but I guess I'll chime in here.
This was a fun thread. I can't speak for Diabolik or Jasonic, but I'm sure most of us have no genuine ill will towards each other. If Diabolik and Jasonic didn't bring up interesting points, I wouldn't have even bothered.
I think this might actually be the first thread where Claus and I have agreed with each other for the most part. Most of the time it's us going back and forth.
Would love to see more of these threads instead of the "CHECK OUT THIS SONG" threads, although those do serve a purpose.
Claus / Intromental
20 years of uniting the powers of metal
You're so stupid it makes no sense - never once did any of us say that those bands are in a position to pull in a lot of people RIGHT NOW.
Even Jason knows better than to say crap like that.
Guess we know who's Beavis and who's Butthead now, right?
Diabolik
Member
As I have said many times. I just love to debate and talk music. I dont like the mindset of always having to agree with every point to remain PC. Jason and I argue about music all the time. Do I think less of him. Of course but I look past his faults of being wrong all the time. DCcowboys...we agree on lots of other threads here....no ill will here. I am here just to have fun and talk music.
Diabolik
Member
never really watched the show so I couldnt really tell you. Who ever is the most strikenly handsome is the one that I would be.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Exactly!!!
I have met MANY posters from this very forum, as well as others, at shows, and we got along great.
Who cares if we don't agree or think the other person is making absurd claims?
This thread is THIS long because we are all passionate about metal.
It's the main reason I have posted at THIS forum for many years, even though I have never attended the festival.
Sure, I don't agree with everything said, or every band people go nuts for on here, but I do respect everyone here, for being that passionate and backing their fav bands up.
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