Low crowds for recent metal tours...

[nomisofsiman]

I haven't seen anyone mention the economic state of the US, either. I lost my job back in March. I haven't had any luck actually getting a job since then. Well...I actually had one lined up and ready to go, but that fell through for bullshit reasons. But I digress...

Many people are out of a job, or lost their job and got lucky enough to get another, but at lower pay. In my household, Met-Al is the only one bringing in any income right now, and all of it goes directly to necessities. We simply do not have the money to attend shows like we'd like to. We don't have the extra cash to go see Steel Panther, and Al was planning on taking both of us to see Firewind, but I doubt that's going to happen, too. We just don't have the funds like we did when both of us had a job.

And many people are in the same financial situation the two of us are in. It sucks, but until things improve, that will be a deciding factor for many people as well.

BINGO!!! I was unemployed for a little over 1 1/2 years due to a layoff. I know I wasn't the only one and I'm sure there are plenty others that are currently unemployed that plays a HUGE part in shows not selling as well. Bottom line though with this whole thread is there's just too many variables when it comes to shows selling.

 

[actordude]

Side note: Stryper was here this past weekend - in L.A. and down here in OC at the House of Blues. Saw the Orange County show and the place was PACKED.

I agree with all the reasons listed throughout the thread......for me its about the funds. Terrible excuse as a fan, but its the truth.

 

[johnfrank1970]

Oh drat! Leave it to you inscrutable humans to read an emotional judgement into a cyborg's math equations where absolutely no judgement was intended! I hoped that anyone who has read my posts around here for years would know that I would *never* stand in judgment over who qualifies as a "fan" or not, because, well, that would be stupid, pointless, and even petty, like deciding who gets to be in my 3rd grade Cool Kids Club. "Tut tut, sorry, you don't go to enough shows, so I'm going to disqualify you as a fan!" C'mon! Do adults actually think and behave like that? Heck, I don't even think being a "fan" is something to be particularly proud of, so even if I declared you a non-fan (which I didn't!) it's more likely that it would be meant as a compliment!

For a cyborg, you sure can get flustered. I was just giving you shit, my man. Plus, I am a member of four different Cool Kids Clubs already so I don't need your stupid club, dumbhead.

 

[Prog_Please]

I used to attend shows all the time back when I was in college, but now that I have a full time job and what not, its really difficult to see a show if I don't have the following day off. By the time the show ends and I get home, its close to 2AM. I would personally go to MORE shows if they started ON TIME and only had maybe one opener (which rarely happens, and judging by most of the responses here, people want MORE bands than less).

I think over-saturation of the market and a misguided notion of how many fans a band has also plays a large part in low crowds. I'll be the first to admit I don't attend "local" shows or concerts of bands that aren't that big. I'd rather see (I think Glenn hit it on the nose lol) Symphony X, Kamelot, Nightwish, Opeth or Dream Theater than some smaller prog / power band. Since some of these larger bands tour frequently, I'm not left with a shortage of shows.

I don't know if this has been brought up, but along the lines of a misguided notion of how many fans a band has, I think there's this notion (in some people's minds) that metal fans are 1 dimensional. That its always metal! metal! metal! But I'd venture to guess that I'm not the only one with other hobbies as well. Yes, I like going out to metal concerts and all, but during NFL season, Sunday is an all football day. When the Lakers are in town, that trumps any concert. Open track day at Laguna Seca? I'm there. And its not just sports, there's so much to do that for all the non-hardcorest of metal fans, you have to put on a tour that competes with EVERYTHING there is to do out there in the world. And I think relying on this idea of "cmon, support the bands, support metal" is a terrible business model. We're in the USA, that shit doesn't fly here



Disclaimer: All views presented here are not based on any facts whatsoever other than my own trends and opinions. Don't. Rage.

 

[dcowboys311]

But I'd venture to guess that I'm not the only one with other hobbies as well. Yes, I like going out to metal concerts and all, but during NFL season, Sunday is an all football day. When the Lakers are in town, that trumps any concert.

LEAVE THE HALL POSER!!!!!!!!

 

[AngraRULES]

I'll be the first to admit I don't attend "local" shows or concerts of bands that aren't that big. I'd rather see (I think Glenn hit it on the nose lol) Symphony X, Kamelot, Nightwish, Opeth or Dream Theater than some smaller prog / power band.

Not raging.. but I am curious as to why you find "better" to see a band over and over and over again, over seeing something new. It just literally makes no sense to me, and I say this both as a fan and as a person involved in the music scene. Those "bigger" shows you listed are usually more expensive than the smaller ones too, so...

 

[TychoCelchu]

I don't know if this has been brought up, but along the lines of a misguided notion of how many fans a band has, I think there's this notion (in some people's minds) that metal fans are 1 dimensional. That its always metal! metal! metal!

Totally agree with this. The obsessive, one-track-mind metalhead who doesn't know anything about anything else is something that exists only in the imagination of metal detractors.

 

[skyrefuge]

Bottom line though with this whole thread is there's just too many variables when it comes to shows selling.

Yup. And while we can almost certainly say that if everything else is equal, people will go to fewer concerts in a bad economy than they will in a good economy, it's less certain that people are *actually* going to fewer concerts overall, because other, positive factors may be outweighing the negative economic factor.

Just to cite a few anecdotal examples in Chicago, Lollapalooza sold out this year with its largest capacity ever, Pitchfork sold out, and North Coast is a third summer fest that *started* during this downturn and it drew big crowds too. I'm pretty sure there are more active music venues in the city now than there have ever been before. So people *are* definitely paying to see live music and the concert industry is collecting big revenues, but I don't have any stats to show how current total revenue compares to historical revenue.

While I'm here, some personal stats on ticket prices. Here is the average price I paid, including all fees, for various sets of shows in 2010:

All 2010 concerts (69 shows): $17.85
- Non-metal (36 shows): $17.93
- Metal (33 shows): $17.76
- - Foreign metal (14 shows): $20.63
- - Domestic metal (19 shows): $15.64

So it seems that metal show prices are really no different than non-metal shows, and foreign metal shows are expectedly more expensive than domestic shows, but not exorbitantly so, with a 33% premium.

For comparison, the Firewind show here is $20.25, almost hitting the foreign-metal average exactly, while Saxon was a ridiculous $43-$53, which is more than all but one show I saw in 2010.

For a cyborg, you sure can get flustered. I was just giving you shit, my man.

Yeah, I know, that was mostly for J-Man (and maybe Glenn?) but I didn't want to quote all three of you!

Neil

 

[Prog_Please]

Not raging.. but I am curious as to why you find "better" to see a band over and over and over again, over seeing something new. It just literally makes no sense to me, and I say this both as a fan and as a person involved in the music scene. Those "bigger" shows you listed are usually more expensive than the smaller ones too, so...

Well...

1. The bands usually are touring in support of a new album, so I look forward to seeing new tunes off the album (new Opeth is NOT a good example lol).

2. I don't really see the difference between, say, listening to a CD over and over again if you really like the album and watching a band that you really like over and over again.

3. I don't have a problem with seeing something new. But if I make up a list of all the bands that come through the area in a year, I'm going to pick the concerts I go to based on how much I like their music / shows, not how many times I've seen them before. To me, its not about the QUANTITY of bands I've seen, but the QUALITY of bands I've seen.

4. I know you work in the industry and you work hard on promoting your bands, but it still all comes down to personal music taste. For example, I went and saw Darkwater at BARFest, which was a "new" band at the time, because I really enjoy their music. But "new" bands like those that I personally enjoy, don't tour in the US very often. I'd pay to see Disillusion, Division By Zero, VoTuM, which are all "new" bands with only 2 releases each. They just don't tour here.

5. Since I don't see shows every week or what not, the price of the ticket doesn't really come into play. Time is Money as they say, so the quality of bands is more important to me than the $$/band. Plus, the fixed costs associated with going to a concert turn even the cheapest of tours into a reason for stopping at the ATM.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

What is it with all these small crowds for some metal bands? I read reports about the current Firewind tour with low turn-outs, same thing for some shows of the current Saxon tour, a legendary band with their first "real" North American tour in years. The last Primal Fear tour wasn't too successful in term of crowds either, even if the band itself was awesome.

Firewind and Saxon are 2 excellent bands that give great live performances and it's a shame the metal crowd is not attending their shows in higher numbers. I mean, we all know that CDs are not selling too well these days, if these European bands come over here to tour and get noone to attend, someday, they won't tour over here at all.

And it's surely not because of the ticket prices. I don't know the cost for every place in the US, but in my place, for Firewind (last fall), Primal Fear (last fall and last spring) and Saxon a couple days ago, all the tickets prices cost me only around $25 to $30. It's not arena tickets at $75 and more.

Were there some "traditional" metal bands on tour in the last few years that got good crowds? I think Accept's last tour was quite successful, but apart from them? Even Hammerfall (which is quite well-known and toured over here a lot) didn't sell-out the venue on their last tour.

These are small tours with bands that aren't all that big. "Legendary" maybe, but popular/big/etc they are unfortunately not.

Let's take Firewind for example, they toured the US 3 times in the band's entire career. That is nowhere near enough to get tons of fans or sell 20,000 + records. Yeah Gus is in Ozzy's band, but that really has nothing to do with Firewind. Black Label Society did Ozzfest every year for MANY years, plus other huge runs, so it's no wonder they play to thousands of people per night, and BLS had time to cut their teeth when the music industry was a-boomin, too. Firewind would really be needing to tour CONSTANTLY in this day and age to really get big crowds and sell lots of records.


I'm going to make a tangential point come to a bigger point so bear with me: When I see people post "band x has become the new Blackguard" or "why is Blackguard, Tesseract, Scale The Summit on every tour?" I do chuckle a little because it's like asking "why do I have to go to a job interview to apply for a job?" You just need to. End of story. That's part of the process as selling yourself to that company you want to work for so you can land the job. The same is said for young bands and touring. The more big shows bands get on, the more exposure they get, and the more valuable the band is. But at the same time, just because you "headline" doesn't really mean the band is "big". Firewind doing these headlining tours is basically a function of Firewind doesn't want to take the risk involved in doing a massive tour that would grant lots of exposure but cost alot of money. Instead, they'd rather do a headlining tour in which the costs are much more minimal and they get paid more. However, they are not getting the exposure they need as a band to bring in new blood. Touring 3 times over 5 years doesn't cut it anymore and simply won't cut it if you want to be a successful career band and get big crowds, etc. Frankly Firewind probably doesn't even care, since Gus now gets paid way more to be Ozzy's guitarist, so he probably doesn't need to work Firewind very hard. If anything, I'd bet he does Firewind for fun at this point.

The same point goes to bands like Hammerfall, Edguy, Primal Fear etc. These bands busted their asses for a decade getting to where they are in Europe, so when they get older, have families and are tasked with the choice of losing money playing Rockstar Mayhemfest or opening for Motley Crue or whatever, and actually breaking even/making some money doing a small headlining tour in the US, they would probably be more inclined to pick choice B.

 

[edgeofthorns]

It drives me crazy when people use the excuse of getting married and having kids as to why they don't attend shows. I've been married nearly 10 years, have a two year old child and one on the way. Plus, I'm the only income in my family. I managed to get to ProgPower this year but on a skimpy budget. I basically bought one cd and that was it. I live in Tennessee, so I have to drive at least 4 hours to get to a decent show.

I think it basically boils down to how a person manages their money. Attending a show within this genre isn't expensive. I hardly ever hit the big tours like Bon Jovi or Journey though due to the prices of tickets being sickening! I also normally just drive to the show and drive back. My days of getting a hotel room are over...way to overpriced! I just suck it up and drive back home late.

With that said, I intend on supporting the bands within this genre for as long as I'm physically able...I've just cut back on the extra spending that I use to do during my concert trips.

~Brian~

 

[nomisofsiman]

while Saxon was a ridiculous $43-$53, which is more than all but one show I saw in 2010.

They seriously need to consider lowering the prices at the Arcada. If they're going to book these types of bands, they need to realize that people aren't going to pay that much for a show. Granted, the Saxon show had a decent turnout, but I think it probably would've sold out had it not been for that price.

 

[adaher]

If ticket sales are actually in decline, could it have something to do with the quality of the shows? Set times have also been in decline, in the 80s you'd get a 2 hour show, sometimes longer, now you get 90 minutes, if you're lucky. And 10 minutes of that might be a drum solo. There's also no real performance going on with most bands these days, it's more like a recital than a rock n' roll show.

One reason I don't get as excited about local shows as I used to is that the experience just isn't that exciting. I grew up in the 80s and 90s and going to concerts, even in smaller venues, was an event. The bands played until they were drenched in sweat and they knew how to get a crowd hyped. Many of today's bands just seem to clock in and clock out. So once you've seen them, you've seen them. Same as the studio albums.

 

[Diabolik]

I dont think price is that much an issue for most. Sure for the slackers not working but if there is a band I want to see....I will pay pretty much what it cost to see it. I am a master at saving money and planning ahead so it is never an issue with me. It seems that more of the "underground" shows get a better turnout than the normal touring metal shows. For example....There was a one off show with Nunslaughter / Acid Witch / Bones / Absconder this summer. It was at Beat Kitchen and the place was packed for all 4 bands. Crazy crowd with a very odd mix of people. Lots of non metal heads there because they read about the show in the Chicago Reader because it was also a book release show for the Slayer Diaries. (not the band, but the old zine, the author was at the show signing the book). Most shows at the Red Line Tap in Chicago are always sold out or near sold out, not hard since it holds 100. They have bands like High Spirits / Zuul / Deceased / Impaler / Ignitor and that level of band playing once a month. It is a fun time. Then on the other side of the coin I have gone to Reggie's to see bigger acts play in front of smaller crowds. November's Doom had thier much advertised record release show this spring at Reggies and it was not crowded at all. It was more packed when Woods of Ypres played with them. Maybe it is who is also playing that effects people and if they want to come out for it.

I dont think it is about who is a "fan" or not a "fan". I think each person has thier own priorities and what is important to them. At the end of the day it is just a concert. Some take family first, some thier job, some other hobbies....I think everything plays into effect here.

 

[mëtålspëd]

It drives me crazy when people use the excuse of getting married and having kids as to why they don't attend shows. I've been married nearly 10 years, have a two year old child and one on the way. Plus, I'm the only income in my family. I managed to get to ProgPower this year but on a skimpy budget. I basically bought one cd and that was it. I live in Tennessee, so I have to drive at least 4 hours to get to a decent show.

I think it basically boils down to how a person manages their money. Attending a show within this genre isn't expensive. I hardly ever hit the big tours like Bon Jovi or Journey though due to the prices of tickets being sickening! I also normally just drive to the show and drive back. My days of getting a hotel room are over...way to overpriced! I just suck it up and drive back home late.

With that said, I intend on supporting the bands within this genre for as long as I'm physically able...I've just cut back on the extra spending that I use to do during my concert trips.

~Brian~

Is it cold up way up on that pedestal Brian?

 

[DuchessOfDork]

I didn't know that Dubbya was in town! LOL

Seriously - I didn't even know that band was still in existance. Your friends would have a much better time at the Sabaton show!

Oh GOD, you're telling me..

Sometimes my friends' taste in music is very disappointing. I stopped looking at my in-laws the same way when I found out they actually paid to go see OAR.

 

[ApolloFC]

My situation in NC is that we have two, maybe three venues. Lincoln Theater, Volume 11, and Amos Southend I think. We also have the Greensboro Colosieum (spell) but thats like Megadeth/ACDC territory ($50+) It already takes me 1hr 30 minutes ish to get to Volume 11. The problem is there aren't many metal shows that I like being booked near here (afaik). I attended the UTPOM w/ Seven Kingdoms etc. at Volume 11 on a weekday (Thursday iirc) to about 20 NPC to about 3 NPC towards the end of the night. I only really attended cause a) I knew the band from the Blind Guardian tour b) the show was $10, a steal c) I could stop at my brothers apartment 8 minutes from the venue. d) I was in need of a live metal fix. I don't have a job so getting a place to stay for free is awesome if i need it (ie my living situation at PPUSA).


http://www.volume11tavern.com/?q=calendar Here's the event calendar for volume 11. (Symphony X tour)

http://www.lincolntheatre.com/schedule.htm and for Lincoln Theater (Blind Guardian tour)

 

[DemonOfTheWoods]

That's a lie and you know it.

Actually, no, it's not. Hate to break it to you, but not everything is about you or your band. The people and incidents I was referring to have nothing to do with the times you've comped us tickets or put us on the guest list. So pull your head out of your ass for 5 minutes.

See you Monday?

If you actually read my post, you would know that I'm going to Sabaton on Monday. Already planned on that before Dream Theater was even announced.

 

[DemonOfTheWoods]

I agree with all the reasons listed throughout the thread......for me its about the funds. Terrible excuse as a fan, but its the truth.

Not a terrible excuse- not even an excuse at all- because it is the truth. I'm in the same boat. Some people have the loot to go see everything that comes around. Most of us don't.

 

[DuchessOfDork]

Actually, no, it's not. Hate to break it to you, but not everything is about you or your band. The people and incidents I was referring to have nothing to do with the times you've comped us tickets or put us on the guest list. So pull your head out of your ass for 5 minutes.

If you actually read my post, you would know that I'm going to Sabaton on Monday. Already planned on that before Dream Theater was even announced.

Woah woah dude, calm DOWN. I was joking! I just meant that if you needed a ticket, I'd gladly pay for you, that's all. I just like seeing you guys. I didn't mean anything offensive.