Instead of continuing to mercilessly beat a dead horse here, have you thought about just emailing Floor and asking her directly why she only wanted men in her band?
Floor Jansen wants only men in her band
- Thread starter adaher
- Start date
Bottom line: If Mark Jansen and Sander Gommans had decided that After Forever was a "men only" band, we would not know who Floor Jansen is. There was just no way for a woman to gain any recognition in the metal genre in 1997 unless she was lucky enough to be given a chance by a man. And back then, female singers weren't a hot trend, they were still a pretty rare thing. I remember hearing about Nightwish back then and how different they were because they used a female singer.
Now she has a rare opportunity that only a few women have ever had: she gained enough recognition and fame from the opportunity she was given to be able to start her own band and have people actually be interested in that band. So of course, she's going to pay it forward and help other women to get ahead in the industry, right? Or she at least maintains an open mind, as Mark jansen and Sander Gommans did, so that if a woman of incredible talent comparable to her own should audition, she'd give her a shot? Well, no.
And that's what I don't understand. I didn't want to get into all the debates, I just wanted a plausible explanation that didn't involve her being selfish. Instead, I got defenses of selfishness. And of course everyone has the right to be selfish, it's not a crime, but we still call it what it is.
If we can at least agree on that, I'm done.
Now she has a rare opportunity that only a few women have ever had: she gained enough recognition and fame from the opportunity she was given to be able to start her own band and have people actually be interested in that band. So of course, she's going to pay it forward and help other women to get ahead in the industry, right? Or she at least maintains an open mind, as Mark jansen and Sander Gommans did, so that if a woman of incredible talent comparable to her own should audition, she'd give her a shot? Well, no.
And that's what I don't understand. I didn't want to get into all the debates, I just wanted a plausible explanation that didn't involve her being selfish. Instead, I got defenses of selfishness. And of course everyone has the right to be selfish, it's not a crime, but we still call it what it is.
If we can at least agree on that, I'm done.
Harvester
The Promoter
nailz
Member
skyrefuge
Member
FWIW, I think you've represented the much more reasonable, interesting, and thought-provoking side in this discussion. The people with the "why the hell do you care?" responses seem like the weird ones to me. As you've mentioned, Glenn is really the only one who has given a satisfying potential explanation, though I guess any actual information from Floor herself would be far more useful than all the random guessing and speculation.
Yeah, it's not a life-or-death situation, but neither is anything else discussed on a music forum, and I'm not sure why everyone assumes you're treating it as such. To me, it's mildly interesting that she wanted a male-only band, and even more interesting that she would publicly state that up-front, so it would be cool to hear an explanation. It's exactly the kind of thing that would be an excellent interview question (particularly touching on the "pay it forward" idea), so maybe you should get in touch with interviewers when the promotion cycle starts up.
The obvious contrast here would be Anneke van Giersbergen. The Gathering added a second woman to the band in 2004, and have continued on with two women with their new singer. Then Anneke collaborated with Kristin Fjellseth on 'Air', and now apparently has a woman playing keyboards with Agua de Annique. Obviously this could have all been random chance, but it's easy to add it all up and interpret it as Anneke recognizing her position and paying it forward.
Neil
freakchylde
PPUSA Driver o' Doom!!!!!
And Revamp is based in another country, not the US. That said, as a business owner, you can discriminate, you just can't be totally public about it. As I've said earlier, I hold a contract, where the business owner specifies that the only therapists he will allow to work there, excluding last minute therapist call-outs, have to be women. He won't let male therapists work there. I have to specify that in my ad, the positive part, is that I'm also looking for therapists at another office, that doesn't have that specification in their contract. Discriminatory, yes, legal, unfortunately. Thankfully, I'm not a government-run business.
I'm not calling everyone that disagrees with me a sexist. Just that the statements that perhaps she's afraid another woman would steal the spotlight, or that two women would have trouble getting along in a band, are sexist. We wouldn't assume that about two men working together.
I feel bad for all those female guitar players who want to be in a heavy metal band. Looks like no one is going to give them a chance no matter how good they are.
I feel bad for all those female guitar players who want to be in a heavy metal band. Looks like no one is going to give them a chance no matter how good they are.
J-Dubya 777
It NEVER ends
Good God, this is going to go on for 5 pages????
Can we merge this thread with the doom thread? :Smokedev:
Can we merge this thread with the doom thread? :Smokedev:
nomisofsiman
Member
This is why I have decided to stop chiming in on this thread. This thing seriously needs to go away.
Pellaz
Tigron of Immanion
YOU started this thread in the first place, presumably because you made some assumptions as to why she would want only guys in her band...and didn't like some of the potential answers. Otherwise, why start the fucking thread in the first place? Specious arguments about "ooh, it's a business, this smacks of discrimination" are just plain silly.
It's a freakin' BAND.
With some luck they might even make a bit of money.
Golly gee.
I feel bad for all of the female musicians -- and potential bandmates -- who are being stereotyped without ANY reason in that sentence.
Heck, maybe Floor just wants to be surrounded by eye-candy. It's HER band; she can do what the fuck she wants.
It's a freakin' BAND.
For the 20th time, not the point. I bet this thread would have had a different set of reactions if she'd mentioned a racial or religious preference. It would still be her band, but it would still be bullshit.
That's all I'm sayin'. If the reason is what some of the earlier folks said, it's a BS attitude, especially given the opportunities she had that other females of equal talent didn't get.
It's her band, it's her band, it's her band. I get it. Strangely, we never have a problem calling other people jerks for doing what they want with their band(Timo Tolkki, Jon Shaffer, Yngwie Malmsteen).
For the 20th time, not the point. I bet this thread would have had a different set of reactions if she'd mentioned a racial or religious preference. It would still be her band, but it would still be bullshit.
That's all I'm sayin'. If the reason is what some of the earlier folks said, it's a BS attitude, especially given the opportunities she had that other females of equal talent didn't get.
It's her band, it's her band, it's her band. I get it. Strangely, we never have a problem calling other people jerks for doing what they want with their band(Timo Tolkki, Jon Shaffer, Yngwie Malmsteen).
This is true. Disney does it among countless others. Any business can set a certain 'look' or 'type' they are looking for. By accepting the job you also agree to adhere to their ways; no piercings, no visible tattoos, hair above the collar for men, no mini skirts, no sandals, etc..
I'm sure she's eagerly logging into this thread, or any other for that matter, every morning wondering what she has done...
Then again... it's her band, she will do things they way she wants, and as I stated before almost everyone in this thread will be getting her album anyway so \/\/hatever..
Since this has been mentioned a few times, let me say that if Floor is looking for men in her band for an actual reason that requires men(such as if she intends to grind with them during dance numbers or something, who knows?), then that's perfectly defensible.
Anyone have any ideas on why the image of Revamp would require only male instrument players?
It would seem to me that if she's looking for a male image, she might want to consider doing something about that lead singer.
Anyone have any ideas on why the image of Revamp would require only male instrument players?
It would seem to me that if she's looking for a male image, she might want to consider doing something about that lead singer.
Here's what's bothering me, again:
If she had required all the band members to be under five feet tall, people would have been like, "Um, that's weird." and had a good laugh.
If she had required that all band members be white, most people would have strongly disapproved.
The attitude here to her requirement that they all be male, however, is a rather belligerent "It's her band!", which would not have been the response had I posted a thread about any other unusual requirement. And I think that's significant. It tells me that sexism is okay, and that many will vigorously defend it, whereas racism or a requirement that the entire band be proficient in polka would not be, even though it's her band.
Just sayin'.
If she had required all the band members to be under five feet tall, people would have been like, "Um, that's weird." and had a good laugh.
If she had required that all band members be white, most people would have strongly disapproved.
The attitude here to her requirement that they all be male, however, is a rather belligerent "It's her band!", which would not have been the response had I posted a thread about any other unusual requirement. And I think that's significant. It tells me that sexism is okay, and that many will vigorously defend it, whereas racism or a requirement that the entire band be proficient in polka would not be, even though it's her band.
Just sayin'.
Taliwakker
.....
Purveyor Of Evil
Heavy Metal, INC.
I don't feel bad for them. If a band isn't giving them them chance, they should start a band themselves. If they are that good, they could make it happen. Take the world by storm!!! I'd love to see more women playing in metal bands,, but to be honest, I don't think there are that many that are interested. I would like to be proven otherwise though.
I would have no problem at all buying cds of an all women metal band, just as long as they are really good, the same thing I say with all male bands....
I've always thought that there's something sexy about a women in a metal band, but that's just me
nomisofsiman
Member
I figure five pages is enough for us to make our cases.
And with that done, by the power vested in me by the dramatic music playing in the background where I'm sitting, I hereby pass judgment on you.
There. You are judged.
And with that done, by the power vested in me by the dramatic music playing in the background where I'm sitting, I hereby pass judgment on you.
There. You are judged.
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