Would Greatly Appreciate Crits for my Mixing&Tone

[JudgeDrey]

Hey everyone!
I was told by some good friends from UG.com that this was the place to be for some top-notch advice on mixing/mastering/tone...ect. So here I am.

I just started mixing myself about 2-3 months ago. I recently went from recording direct from a Vox VT-15 to using an amp sim called ShredSuite. I've been using EZDrummer-DKfH for over a year now when I started making backing tracks in FL Studio.

So when I wanted to start recording myself, I started using Cubase 5 for my DAW, which I love. One thing I enjoy alot about Cubase is all the EQ presets it has that eliminates alot of the guesswork when you're a complete beginner like myself. Oh well, you gotta start somewhere right? I also started using Broomstick Bass for my bass VST which I find sounds pretty good.

I really really want to learn as much as I can about this stuff as I've been playing guitar for 20 years and have never been able to record myself until now! I'm a pretty helpfull guy when there's something I can help out with, so I'd greatly appreciate any help I can get ATM, and I'd be glad to return the favor 10 fold in the future if anyone out there ever needs help!

So anyway, I've done a few simple recordings, mostly Metallica and Megadeth covers, and I'd like some opinions on the mix I've spent the most time on to get an idea where I stand on this vast subject so far.

I'm real sorry if I'm posting anything I shouldn't be or if I'm leaving anything out...ect. If I'm doing anything the wrong way, just let me know. I've looked through some FAQ's and other posts to see what the posting conventions are so hopefully everything's OK!

The recording I'm gonna post is a cover of Megadeth's "Holy Wars". I like the structure of the song and thought it would be a good one to highlight a few different things I wanted to try. (ie: dual guitar harmonies, multiple solos, clean sections, panning, fast paced drums...ect)

Here's my set-up for this recording;
Guitars: ShredSuite
I record one rhythm guitar track, pan it 80% left. I record a second rhythm track, pan it 80% right. I EQ both tracks to a simple rock guitar setting with a nice, loud mid-range.
Then I duplicate both tracks, pan them 60%, left and right.
I EQ these second tracks with very scooped mids and set the overall volume for them a little louder than the original tracks(with the high mid-ranges). Even though the volume is louder on the duplicated tracks, the mids are so scooped that the volume turns out almost equal for both tracks.

When I first tried it this way, I found it gave the guitars a very nice surround effect, with the mids being nice and loud, but with a scooped out effect.

Drums: EZDrummer-DKfH
I use the "Death Kit" here. All my pieces are multitracked and everything is pretty much left at default like the panning of the toms..ect. I bring the "room" mics down to like -15db. All my drum pieces are EQed with Cubases available presets for specific drum pieces. Like Kick EQ presets and snare presets...ect. I didn't add any compression (that I remember?? ) because I don't really understand how it works so I left it out.

Bass: Bornemark's Broomstick Bass
Here I used the Rickenbacker 4001 bass(sometimes I'll use the Gibson Thunderbird for really heavy songs). All settings pretty much at default.
I use one of the DAW's bass EQ presets that has these settings : (141.8 Hz-6.5 ; 409.9 Hz+6.5 ; 1533.1 Hz+1.8) just FYI if it helps any.

TL;DR
Please crit my mix and tone. Thanks very much in advance!!
Here's the song posted on my UltimateGuitar.com profile...
http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/JudgeDrey/music/all/play869146
Here's the song available for DL on MediaFire...
http://www.mediafire.com/file/o9i23mfnr2977pb/JudgeDrey-HolyWars.mp3

Thanks again and again for any help or advice I get! It's truly appreciated!

~Drey

 

[JudgeDrey]

Bueller?.....Bueller?.....Bueller?

....Anyone??

errrr....*bump*??

 

[Fragle]

sounds exactly as i thought it would by reading the description....

a few notes:
- pan the guitars 100% left/right. don't copy/paste the second rhythm set but play it, and pan that 80 l/r
- keep some room sound in the drums.
- use reverb on snare and toms
- don't go for eq presets. most of them are made by total retards anyways. listen to your tracks, and just ask yourself "what is wrong with that sound". try to fix that at the source first, i.e. dialing better tones. additional eq should be done after the source is as good as possible. since you use ampsims and dkfh that's no big problem anyways.
- as for eq guidelines and compression and much more, READ A LOT. this forum is invaluable.

to further elaborate on that eq presets suck comment: take the bass for example, it's supposed to fill the gap between guitar bottom/low mids and kick drum lows. hence the 100-180hz area is where it tends to sit, i.e. be prominent in. look at the eq setting you posted, you just scooped out that whole frequency range.

 

[JudgeDrey]

sounds exactly as i thought it would by reading the description....

Does that mean...bad, really bad, not too bad, horrible?

- pan the guitars 100% left/right. don't copy/paste the second rhythm set but play it, and pan that 80 l/r

So this is common practice for metal? Four completely seperate takes?

- keep some room sound in the drums.
- use reverb on snare and toms

Will do. I started using more room on the drums lately.

- don't go for eq presets. most of them are made by total retards anyways. listen to your tracks, and just ask yourself "what is wrong with that sound". try to fix that at the source first, i.e. dialing better tones. additional eq should be done after the source is as good as possible.

Apart from the fucked bass EQ, is the rest that bad? I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that ALL the presets in Cubase 5 are total crap. Can't they be used as a general guide for stuff like toms, overheads and guitars.
and...
The way I EQed the duplicate tracks, with the scooped mids, is that something I should scrap?

since you use ampsims and dkfh that's no big problem anyways.

So using ampsims and DKFH is OK?

- as for eq guidelines and compression and much more, READ A LOT. this forum is invaluable.

Will do!

to further elaborate on that eq presets suck comment: take the bass for example, it's supposed to fill the gap between guitar bottom/low mids and kick drum lows. hence the 100-180hz area is where it tends to sit, i.e. be prominent in. look at the eq setting you posted, you just scooped out that whole frequency range.

I will pay more attention to the bass gap you speak of, but like I mentioned earlier, is using SOME presets that bad as a starting point?

THANKS a million for the advice! I really appreciate it. I realize I have a long way to go before understanding what I DON'T hear in my recordings, but I'd like to find myself in a position someday where I can concentrate on playing more that mixing. I'm just trying to get enough of a grasp to have a good mould to be able to write and record some stuff. You know?

Thanks again buddy!

Drey

 

[Mago]

The problem with presets is that they usually won't work on YOUR source. You can take a look at what the preset is doing, but you should understand what it is doing, and then apply it to your own source.

some comments:
copying guitars to "widen" them usually doesn't work, and also isn't done too often. maybe just if you reamp the same tracks through different amps.
"So this is common practice for metal? Four completely seperate takes?" Yes it is, it's called quadtracking (2 different takes is dualtracking)
the mix sounds really scooped overall, try leaving more mids in the mix.
guitars sound meeehhh...maybe you want to try out some free ampsims and impulsefiles (FAQ)
read a lot dude!

 

[JudgeDrey]

First off, thanks for the response, I appreciate it.

The problem with presets is that they usually won't work on YOUR source. You can take a look at what the preset is doing, but you should understand what it is doing, and then apply it to your own source.

I'm very confused by what you're trying to say here. I'm sorry but I just don't understand what you mean by the presets won't work on "my source". What are the presets for if not for "my source" ?

copying guitars to "widen" them usually doesn't work, and also isn't done too often. maybe just if you reamp the same tracks through different amps.

That's basically all I'm doing. I'm using the same tracks and just running them through different amps, and I decided to use a more scooped EQ on the reamped track. Is this wrong?

"So this is common practice for metal? Four completely seperate takes?" Yes it is, it's called quadtracking (2 different takes is dualtracking)

I am familiar with dual and quadtracking, I just didn't realize quadtracking was done MOST of the time as opposed to just dual.

the mix sounds really scooped overall, try leaving more mids in the mix.
guitars sound meeehhh...

That's your opinion, which I appreciate, but I wonder what your opinion would be for some professional metal albums that have been released in the past 30 years. Like Master of Puppets, Among the Living, Rust in Peace, Peace Sells..., Kill 'em All, The Ultra Violence, Endgame, So Far So Good So What..., And Justice For All, Cowboys From Hell, The Great Southern Trendkill, South of Heaven, Show No Mercy, Reign In Blood, The Legacy, The New Order...ect
Now all these albums have very different distortion/tones, whatever you want to call it, but would you say they're all good? I'm sure some of these albums probably sound like crap(ie: too scooped out) to you even though they were professionaly produced right? I'm just trying to see how much is really bad on my part, and how much is just your personal taste. I appreciate your opinion either way bud!

maybe you want to try out some free ampsims and impulsefiles (FAQ)
read a lot dude!

I am using an ampsim ATM (what did you think I was using?), and I was using impulse files before that when I was still recording direct with my Vox VT15. Since I started using Shredsuite, I ditched the impulse files because it has it's own cab sim. It has a lot of different settings, I'm not sure if you've ever tried it, but it's a pretty awesome amp sim. I've been meaning to try other ones like Revalver and such.

I've been reading on this subject for over 6 months now, I was hoping my recordings wouldn't be too bad at this point, even though there's still ALOT I don't understand about EQing and compression...ect. Oh well, I guess the quest never ends, and that's what makes it so fun and addictive!

Thanks again for the advice!