What does Blackguard do when not touring? (aka the thread that won't die)

[Diabolik]

Except more likely than not actual sales figures will disagree with you. Again... my point...

lets look ahead 10 years and see who is still relevant and who's name is still credible and influencial.....I would go with Atlantean Kodex over Blackguard. Blackguard has no staying power in their music. It is paint by numbers generic metal. In the end the staying power is what makes the band.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

lets look ahead 10 years and see who is still relevant and who's name is still credible and influencial.....I would go with Atlantean Kodex over Blackguard. Blackguard has no staying power in their music. It is paint by numbers generic metal. In the end the staying power is what makes the band.

Once again, you are arguing completely subjective terms. This is all your opinion, but there's no empiricism or science behind it. Fans of Blackguard (which mind you, I am not) would argue against this. Are you right and they wrong just because you say so?

inb4 "no they are wrong b/c they suck *sticks tongue out*"

 

[General Zod]

So if I've learned one thing from this thread it is...

Atlantean Kodex slays. Best discovery on this board in quite a while. Kudos to those who have been talking them up.

 

[Pellaz]

Okay, first I HAVE to address the thread title with a joke, since it's been lying there for three pages now. I'm like a toon faced with "shave-and-a-haircut" and just dying to yell "two bitsssss!"

What does Blackguard do when not touring?

"Why, sir, that's clearly a trick question! Blackguard is never not touring!"


Ahem. Now, on to the thread.

Every time I read comments like these about Blackguard (and Powerglove, Into Eternity and a few other hard working bands), I have to smack myself over the forehead to keep from yelling "IDIOT" right back in your face.
....But then there are those bands that takes it upon themselves to jump on every tour there is out there, paying their way throughout the country, and facing a new audience each and every night. Make no mistake, it's a costly thing to do, and I (without knowing the guys in Blackguard) am sure it has been a financial stress/burden as well as one with several personal sacrifices to be touring as much as they are. However, this is the only REAL way to make it to the point where music can become a career....That's why you see Blackguard on every single tour there is, that's why you used to see Into Eternity on every single tour there was (until that cost them too many lineup changes for that to be any fun anymore), that's why (and HOW) Firewind did earlier on to make sure they got to where they are, that's why (and HOW) Kamelot did, etc ... tour tour tour ... and you'll eventually make it big or it's going to break up your band.
...Quit bitching and be happy that there are some bands out there who actually face the hard odds of this business and fight to amount to something.

A-fucking-men. I'm not a big fan of Blackguard but I'm certainly not a hater. Their live shows are pretty good, they're cool to talk to and they kindly mentioned ProgPower from the stage at the Masquerade on their last tour-stop here. The headliner, who also played PP, did not.

sorry Klaus.....I dont envy Blackguard and being on tour all year long. I like my home, job, and my freinds and hobbies and would never trade that to tour the states over and over again scraping by with money.

And that is why your band would be likely to fail.
Seriously, just because you personally like to stay near home and not tough it out on the road means that a hard-working band that's trying to earn their way into success deserves your hatred?



There have been several good examples given of bands who have opened a lot and had it pay off: The Faceless were one, Amon Amarth, CoB and Sonata Arctica are a few more. Opeth's tenure as a high-profile opener in the U.S. was shorter, but there's no question that they built a BIG following with it and headlined shortly thereafter.

BTW, A.S., thanks for your comments. You're not the most tactful poster on the Forum, but certainly one of the most incisive.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

So if I've learned one thing from this thread it is...

Atlantean Kodex slays. Best discovery on this board in quite a while. Kudos to those who have been talking them up.

I listened to a track of theirs just now and dug it. Definitely a band I can get behind.

Pellaz, thanks. I know we had alot of disagreements in the past so I can imagine how hard it was for you to compliment me hahaha.

 

[jem777az]

So if I've learned one thing from this thread it is...

Atlantean Kodex slays. Best discovery on this board in quite a while. Kudos to those who have been talking them up.

How would you classify them? Doom Metal? I listened to all the clips on youtube and I just don't get it. If that's doom metal then I guess I just don't like doom metal.

 

[Magius]

How would you classify them? Doom Metal? I listened to all the clips on youtube and I just don't get it. If that's doom metal then I guess I just don't like doom metal.

I'd call it Progressive Power Metal. I'm not particularly impressed either. It's competent, but I don't see what warrants the hype.

Which reiterates the point that "good" music is a matter of taste and personal opinion.

 

[TheLongshot]

What does Blackguard do during their free time? Think of new items they can put their name on to sell to their fans. I mean, it seems to be the way they make their money.

The only thing I can say about them is that at least they aren't Swashbuckle.

 

[Diabolik]

Once again, you are arguing completely subjective terms. This is all your opinion, but there's no empiricism or science behind it. Fans of Blackguard (which mind you, I am not) would argue against this. Are you right and they wrong just because you say so?

inb4 "no they are wrong b/c they suck *sticks tongue out*"

Do Blackguard actually have fans? As we all know there are different levels of bands and cult status.....the constant touring and being everywhere is definelty hurting Blackguards status. I have never once heard anyone ever go...."Cool, Blackguard is coming to town". It is usually...."oh great (sarcasm), them AGAIN". Bands like this come and go so many times. Look at Into Eternity....this was a band that everyone on here was saying they were going to be huge and one day able to headline ProgPower.....now they are pretty much in the "where are they now file".

The problem with Amon Amarth, COB, Sonata and others who have toured alot to get there name out there is that they already had a strong fanbase before coming over here. People were hungry to see them play live. WHile bands like Powerglove, Swashbuckle, and Blackguard are bands that we get stuck with who really dont offer anything interesting other than jumping on a trend and ride it out and make a quick buck. I wouldnt even put Blackguard in the same catagory with Opeth, COB, Sonata, AA even back when they first toured here since like I stated before....people actually wanted to see them.

Pellaz.....what success has Blackguard gotten other signing to Victory Records who will dump them once they burnout. If I was in a band I doubt I would fail or make it big. I would concentrate on writing fun catchy songs that people enjoy. I have been around bands for 2 decades and have learned lots...not like others who hound bands at shows for autographs and pictures. I have a memeber of my family who was just in a pretty successful band.

I think you could ask almost any real artist.....would you rather make a quick buck and have zero staying power or have you art last forever and I think at least 90% would say staying power. If you truly are a musician, painter, writer....that is what is most important. Jumping on all these tours and living the same night over and over isnt what an artist does.

 

[Jasonic]

Ok, a LOT has been said here. Too much that I won't bother going back to quote anyone specifically.
Many points were made. Most were valid.
I think some here are simply getting offended if someone doesn't agree with THEIR opinion, which is part of the problem.

My final point is this.......a band's ability to remain as a going concern.

I am hearing a lot of, "Band X, even though overexposed, is more successful because as a result, they sold 4,000 copies of their CD"
Sure, of course, the more you get out in front of people, it will have a positive impact on sales.

What though about longevity of a career?

I don't think Amon Amarth, COB, or Sonata are good examples.
As someone said, they were already household names in other parts of the globe.
There was already demand for those bands here.

I certainly respect ANY band that gets off their arses to tour.
Though, as said a zillion times though, do you want to be the "Oh crap, that band again?" band?

Quality will always prevail. If you suck, no amount of overexposure can save you.

 

[Palabra de Dios]

So if I've learned one thing from this thread it is...

Atlantean Kodex slays. Best discovery on this board in quite a while. Kudos to those who have been talking them up.

Yeah, it's been only a few months since I found out about them, as their full length was being reviewed by a few sites. One of the coolest bands to come around in recent times. Fucking cool as hell guys, if you read some interviews.

 

[Symphony]

It's a tough old business that's for sure being a support band/opening act, probably more so now than ever. If you consider tour support is not available to a lot of bands. Buy ons can range amazingly depending on the tour....from £100 to £1000 per show in my experience so if you then multiply that out it is already significant before you have even costed out the other inherent costs ie transport, fuel, drivers (if you are taking a nightliner), road taxes, flights/ferry costs, agent fees etc. You are going to have to shift an awful lot of merchandise to even cover some of those costs, and then venues will potentially take a cut (10% - 25% in my experience) so all in all it's a massive financial commitment. You may also have to "price match" your merchandise to that of the headliner, which may mean having to sell a shirt for £20 when you would normally sell it for £10.

The other side of the merchandise situation I have noticed is that kids don't have as much disposable income and therefore if they go to a show they are likely to, on the whole, spend the money they have on headliner merch....even if they happen to like the opening band as well.

I guess the reality is, as has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, that luck plays a big part as it does in a lot of walks of life. But do we, as fans and/or musicians, determine success by purely financial markers? As bands, do we make music to make our fortune and become "rock stars" or do we do it because it is what we need to do creatively?

It is a tough business, particularly in the digital age. If tour support is calculated on physical sales (and legal downloads) that doesn't help the smaller band particularly either as, although file sharing may spread the word, nobody officially knows where these fans are.

At the end of the day though.....I'll tip my hat to any band, irrespective of whether I'm a fan, who are prepared to put their hands in their collective pockets and try to get their name out via sheer hard work, no matter what the sacrifices are.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

I think some here are simply getting offended if someone doesn't agree with THEIR opinion, which is part of the problem.

I don't get offended when people don't agree with my OPINION. I get offended when people are too stubborn to listen to facts.

I am hearing a lot of, "Band X, even though overexposed, is more successful because as a result, they sold 4,000 copies of their CD"

No, you're not hearing that. We, who are trying to explain that it's beneficial to a band' career to be touring a lot, do NOT use the word "overexposed". It's a negative word, implying that it is, as YOU - not us - claim, too much ...

Sure, of course, the more you get out in front of people, it will have a positive impact on sales.

Of course. And that's the whole purpose of this - get out and play, play, play ... then harvest the fruits of your labor by increasing album sales, merchandise sales and making sure the venues will PAY you to play next time you come around.

Again, stop being so stubborn and LISTEN to what I'm explaining you. You could learn a lot from listening to what I'm saying.

 

[Palabra de Dios]

I'll also weigh in on this topic, since I did post it and open up for such a debate. I agree with both of the main points which seem to be at conflict here:

Blackguard tour a lot. They work hard and put through a lot of effort to get at it on stage day in and day out. Life on the road is a shit life, and they do it most of the year, and that's to be commended. Although, I don't enjoy what they do for the most part. Their headbanging is laughably choreographed, the singer brings a box on stage to stand on so he can be higher than everyone else, the drummer's bass drums are horribly triggered and sound robotic (a trend which is very common in metal and if done to this extent annoys me). They don't lack skill, but their sound is a bit passe; as in, they're playing Bodom riffs from just a few years ago, just not as good. They lack a true identity.

The other thing I agree with is that they have overexposed themselves and fans will begin to tire of seeing them. They've only got one full length album as Blackguard and basically play the same set each time. I've seen them 4 times now. They do the same set; high energy, but it's getting stale. Like Brian (dcowboys) said, their output isn't all that good to begin with, so to do the same set each time isn't as fun.

There is something cool about a band that creates mystique about them by not playing live often. Or only doing one tour a year. Or just being a better band. Kataklysm tours all the time, but they're a better band and capable of headlining. I think the real thing at stake with Blackguard is their potential to headline, which is very questionable.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

The two are the standard if you run the place.

You know better than that Zod - I don't "run" anything here.
Glenn has deleted posts of mine in the past, and have sent me warnings for how to behave around here.
I'm just like everyone else who posts here - except of course for the fact that I'm always right

 

[Palabra de Dios]

I don't think heated debates are bad at all. But we must resist the urge to insult the person rather than the opinion. They are different things.

On the subject of tours...I'm really excited about the Finnish tour of next year: Ensiferum, Finntroll, Barren Earth, Rotten Sound. That's going to be a killer show.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

On the subject of tours...I'm really excited about the Finnish tour of next year: Ensiferum, Finntroll, Barren Earth, Rotten Sound. That's going to be a killer show.

Ahh yes, Ensiferum is another of those bands that toured constantly and now are headlining.

c.

 

[General Zod]

How would you classify them? Doom Metal? I listened to all the clips on youtube and I just don't get it. If that's doom metal then I guess I just don't like doom metal.

I definitely hear elements of Doom, Traditional Metal and Power. Id say they do a perfect job of blending those three genres seamlessly.

 

[Palabra de Dios]

Ahh yes, Ensiferum is another of those bands that toured constantly and now are headlining.

c.

The difference, I think, is that by the time Ensiferum began touring heavily in the States, they had put out three extremely solid albums and had cred in the black metal, "viking/folk metal", and even power metal communities.

To relate it back to Blackguard, the band only has one album. If they put out a follow up that blows us all away, we may eat our words. I want to see good songs live.

 

[General Zod]

You know better than that Zod - I don't "run" anything here. Glenn has deleted posts of mine in the past, and have sent me warnings for how to behave around here.

My point was merely this; perhaps the two guys to compare yourself to on the forum aren't the webmaster and the guy that runs the fest. Had I taken the time to elaborate, I would have added that most of the regulars here have built up a bit of board cred and taken the time to get a sense of each other. By way of example, if I started posting on another forum, I'd likely tone down the sarcasm a bit at the start, until people began to get a sense that my intent was mostly humorous.

I'm just like everyone else who posts here - except of course for the fact that I'm always right

That is a distinct advantage.