What does Blackguard do when not touring? (aka the thread that won't die)

[Claus / Intromental]

The difference, I think, is that by the time Ensiferum began touring heavily in the States, they had put out three extremely solid albums and had cred in the black metal, "viking/folk metal", and even power metal communities.

To relate it back to Blackguard, the band only has one album. If they put out a follow up that blows us all away, we may eat our words. I want to see good songs live.

But, again, you're missing the point - so what that Ensiferum didn't tour heavily OVER HERE IN THE STATES? They did their road dogging days all around EUROPE first. Just like COB did, and Sonata Arctica did, and Amon Amarth did, and so on ...

Of course Blackguard - as a band from this side of the Atlantic - chooses to play the majority of shows over here to build up their name. Just like the European bands choose their local market first. It's cheaper and easier to do that way.

 

[dcowboys311]

Their live shows are pretty good, they're cool to talk to and they kindly mentioned ProgPower from the stage at the Masquerade on their last tour-stop here. The headliner, who also played PP, did not.

heh, you know that Nevermore hasn't played PP yet.

 

[dcowboys311]

Also if you're talking strictly US touring, Ensiferum headlined over here before they did any opening slots, didn't they? I was under the impression that the first Paganfest was their first tour in this part of the globe.

That Ensiferum/Rotten Sound tour is going to be here the same night at the same venue as NOFX/Bouncing Souls/Off With Their Heads. Talk about a great night for music...

 

[dcowboys311]

I don't think heated debates are bad at all. But we must resist the urge to insult the person rather than the opinion. They are different things.

They aren't. This isn't church. Nothing wrong with expressing what you believe in a more...passionate...way.

 

[Palabra de Dios]

But, again, you're missing the point - so what that Ensiferum didn't tour heavily OVER HERE IN THE STATES? They did their road dogging days all around EUROPE first. Just like COB did, and Sonata Arctica did, and Amon Amarth did, and so on ...

Of course Blackguard - as a band from this side of the Atlantic - chooses to play the majority of shows over here to build up their name. Just like the European bands choose their local market first. It's cheaper and easier to do that way.

Okay, there is a good point. So then, maybe the goal is to build live chops in one market and hope for success in another? Perhaps. That's an idea.

Still, I like Ensiferum, Amon Amarth, and COB's early work waaaaay more than Profugis Mortis/Blackguard...

 

[Palabra de Dios]

That Ensiferum/Rotten Sound tour is going to be here the same night at the same venue as NOFX/Bouncing Souls/Off With Their Heads. Talk about a great night for music...

For sure. Do you like Barren Earth? It's like early Amorphis down to a T. Could be your cup of tea, yeah?

 

[DuchessOfDork]

it takes a special person to want to ride around in a van with other sweaty, smelly dudes, sleep on the floor, eat fast food everyday, just to play 25 minutes a night and the rest of the time is boredom mainly.

Aw, it's not so bad! Since I'm the only girl, I get to be the pivot point of our band orgy.

And sometimes they let me eat!

Seriously though, Powerglove has gained a lot of fans from my nerd-centric friends. They saw them when we opened for Hammerfall, and now I know at least 30 people who will go to shows JUST FOR POWERGLOVE. Not shitting you. In fact, when I played with Firewind, I met some fellow followers of the Dork-kingdom who told me they came to see POWERGLOVE.

So getting shoved into people's faces isn't so bad, sometimes. Sure, a lot of people might be annoyed, or hate you, but there will also be people who wind up loving you.

Gotta take the risk!

 

[AeonicSlumber]

I think some here are simply getting offended if someone doesn't agree with THEIR opinion, which is part of the problem.

Again, this is not a debate on the ethics of what to do when a patient is in a persistent-vegetable state, or whether Palestine is right or Israel is right. Those are complex issues with tons of opinions and sides. This is a simple, clear-cut debate, and one in which YOU have no idea whatsoever on. If you guys had said that or implied that, it would've been one thing but instead of you and Diabolik open it to pointless conjecture and actually argue those who know what they're talking about in the matter. It's like telling Apple's sales team that they're doing it all wrong and nobody will buy iPods because you think iPods are ugly.

As I said, if the building is on fire you can claim it to be cotton candy as your opinion but that doesn't change the fact that you're gonna burn alive inside the building unless you accept that you're in a burning building. I mean... how many analogies do I have to use to show how silly you've been this whole time? When will you actually come to terms with that?

I am hearing a lot of, "Band X, even though overexposed, is more successful because as a result, they sold 4,000 copies of their CD"
Sure, of course, the more you get out in front of people, it will have a positive impact on sales.

What though about longevity of a career?

What about it? I'd argue that great sales yield healthy longevity because as I said but I guess you were too busy scheming up a reply to take in what was said, that sales go back to the label and then that money reinvests into the band. This means that the band has less to spend on touring and other things and can actually make more money. The more the sales recoup the label's costs and show that there's a market looking to buy the product, the bigger the band gets by proxy. Surely you recognize this.

I certainly respect ANY band that gets off their arses to tour.
Though, as said a zillion times though, do you want to be the "Oh crap, that band again?" band?

Quality will always prevail. If you suck, no amount of overexposure can save you.

Quality will not always prevail, because for the trillionth time. It's all subjective. Not only are our definitions of quality different, but so are our definitions of prevalence. You are trying to claim truths based on your personal opinion.

And now, I'm really out of here cause this is getting old. Shaaaaaablaagoooo!!

 

[Claus / Intromental]

How would you classify them? Doom Metal? I listened to all the clips on youtube and I just don't get it. If that's doom metal then I guess I just don't like doom metal.

It's "epic doom metal" ... I guess bands such as Bathory (Hammerheart and Twilight ... albums), While Heaven Wept and perhaps a bit of Solitude Aeturnus would be the best way to describe them.

 

[J-Man]

BTW, A.S., thanks for your comments. You're not the most tactful poster on the Forum, but certainly one of the most incisive.

Aeonic Slumber, you have made some very insightful comments in the post, thanks for coming back. I know we have had some disagreements in the past, but it was always in the spirit of debate. So hang around this time, your insight is valued, if not by all, at least by some.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

I want to add one more thing in all seriousness. The other part of the reason why I posted here was because the Blackguard guys have played this fest and read (and have posted on) this board.

Diabolik and Jasonic , you do not have to like the band (oh uh, neither do I!). In fact, I've told bands (on this VERY board... remember Olaf/Amaranthe.. although to be fair, I had no idea he read this board at the time. I did feel pretty bad about saying that after someone dragged him in just to weigh in against me ragahgahgah ) that I don't like their band or that they suck, etc. However, your constant prattling about how Blackguard is "paint by numbers" and that they will fade away/break up and implying that all the work they are putting is a waste just because YOU don't like them, is pretty damn offensive considering that that they have played this stage. Did you geniuses ever stop to think of that?

 

[nomisofsiman]

Evidence to support this please. I have provided enough evidence to support the opposite. This is why I feel like I am right, and you are wrong. You make generalizations, I suggest that your arguments are ridiculous. You can argue that playing 200 shows in Rhode Island a year is overexposure maybe because it's such a small state and nobody is going to sit there every night of the year. But playing the same general market once a month within a 3-6 month span is not overexposure. It's the opposite. If it wasn't the opposite, you would not see the existence of 360 deals where labels take band's tour earnings, or labels such as Sumerian and NoiseArt Records which are owned an operated by actual booking agents. If it wasn't a successful venutre, you wouldn't see agents and label guys getting involved in artist management which is now the norm well. Constant touring yields success (unless of course the strain of the touring is such that the band can't take it anymore and breaks up), and all of the above is actual proof of that.



Who said they weren't working on a new album? More pointless conjecture on your end.



And THIS is the crux of my argument. (Now) You, Jasonic, and Diabolik are arguing personal taste and shoehorning it as fact. You and I and most metal fans would say Attack Attack! and Emmure suck, but they toured their butts off and became successful acts at doing so. We think they suck, others disagree. Subjective musical tastes have nothing to do with this. If you can't see that, you're deluding yourself man.

Goodness gracious! Take it easy dude and secondly, actually read what I wrote. I'm not making generalizations. From people I know, a lot of comments I've overheard at shows and comments on other boards, etc. TONS of people have said how they are sick of seeing Blackguard on tour. Because of this, people have been avoiding them either by stepping out or showing up late to shows. Touring as much as they do, will only make metal fans hate them more. If they were on a a couple - 5 or so tours even per year I wouldn't mind. At this rate though, they're in a lot of places a couple times per month. I'm just saying they need to cut it down a little. "A LITTLE." And I know you're going to come back saying "well, people on the boards and at Chicago shows are not the bench mark for the scene." But come on, for everyone who's on a metal board and those I overhear at a Chicago show, there are those that are going to feel the same but don't feel the need to voice it.

To your second response, yeah I'm sure they're working on a new album, but by doing so while they're touring isn't as efficient as concentrating JUST on the album and music. Most band interviews I've heard over the years tends to state that while sometimes bands will write on tour, their best material comes from when they are not touring.

To your third response: While I said I didn't like them, I am not being subjective in terms of a better way to present themselves to fans and becoming more popular. There are plenty of bands that I dislike, but I will admit they have a following from making music fans enjoy. My argument was not saying that because I think they suck as a band (which btw I just sort of think they're okay) that therefore, they never will be successful. All I'm saying is one of the best ways for metal fans to like their stuff is if metal fans actually thought it was good. Am I saying they have no fans? Absolutely not. But if they made music that people enjoyed more, there would be more word of mouth, which in turn would give them more fans. At the moment, it doesn't really seem they have a lot of fans and to piggyback on the previous paragraph, those people who were on the fence and maybe were thinking of buying their cd, for them touring constantly, people may get sick of them and might even change their tune to hating them. That's all I was saying, but yet again you're twisting what I'm saying. I said it in my last post and I'll say it one more time. Everything comes down to the music. Sure, marketing and touring helps no doubt, but AGAIN if people like your music, they're going to like your live show and discography. If they don't, well, you aren't going to be as popular. Bottom line? Yes there is a such thing as overexposure and we're seeing it with this band.

Obviously we're not going to agree here, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[nomisofsiman]

I don't think heated debates are bad at all. But we must resist the urge to insult the person rather than the opinion. They are different things.

This is exactly what I was talking about. Amen.

I definitely hear elements of Doom, Traditional Metal and Power. Id say they do a perfect job of blending those three genres seamlessly.

Agreed.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

All I'm saying is one of the best ways for metal fans to like their stuff is if metal fans actually thought it was good. Am I saying they have no fans? Absolutely not. But if they made music that people enjoyed more, there would be more word of mouth, which in turn would give them more fans. At the moment, it doesn't really seem they have a lot of fans...

Thank god I'm already sporting a skullet, otherwise I would have gone bald within the last day by slapping my forehead every time I read all the stupid crap you and a few others have posted on here ...

Blackguard have 1 full length album out right now, right?
They are paying a ton of money to tour, tour, tour ...

Guess what? They have probably sold WAY more of that 1 CD on their tours, and a heck of a lot more merchandise, than any of the bands that play ProgPower in any of the first 3-4 slots each year. I'm pretty certain that you have to get up to bands of the size of Pagan's mind, Brainstorm etc (and perhaps even higher up) to find bands on PPUSA that sells that amount of CDs that Blackguard have been doing on their constant touring schedule.

They are NOWHERE near breaking even - they are going to owe their banks, their parents, their record label etc money for a lot of years before they break even - but dude, they go through merchandise like nobody's business because they are out there every day and they (I've seen this with my own eyes) are very personal (almost to the point of being pushy) in selling their merch at shows. So, if sales of merch and albums is a measuring tool to find out if a band has fans or not, then I would say they've gotten themselves a lot of fans.

c.

 

[Harvester]

So, if sales of merch and albums is a measuring tool to find out if a band has fans or not, then I would say they've gotten themselves a lot of fans.

c.

I got a plastic Blackguard beer mug.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

I got a plastic Blackguard beer mug.

So you're a fan!!!

 

[Harvester]

So you're a fan!!!

I like to drink beer.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

I like to drink beer.

Right, but if you drink too often you'll ruin the taste of it, and you might start hating on the beer ...

 

[AngraRULES]

Right, but if you drink too often you'll ruin the taste of it, and you might start hating on the beer ...

So we're back to our point that touring constantly will ruin it for Blackguard huh!?

 

[Diabolik]

I want to add one more thing in all seriousness. The other part of the reason why I posted here was because the Blackguard guys have played this fest and read (and have posted on) this board.

Diabolik and Jasonic , you do not have to like the band (oh uh, neither do I!). In fact, I've told bands (on this VERY board... remember Olaf/Amaranthe.. although to be fair, I had no idea he read this board at the time. I did feel pretty bad about saying that after someone dragged him in just to weigh in against me ragahgahgah ) that I don't like their band or that they suck, etc. However, your constant prattling about how Blackguard is "paint by numbers" and that they will fade away/break up and implying that all the work they are putting is a waste just because YOU don't like them, is pretty damn offensive considering that that they have played this stage. Did you geniuses ever stop to think of that?

it is not that I dont like them....it seems to be the popular thought of the masses when ever their name is bought up at shows or on different forums.