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Isn't Over Legend's drummer named Travis? I played with him on one of his school breaks back in Summer 2007...I wish I lived in Boston, I'd join his band in a minute!!!
Christian Metal
- Thread starter 7thSaviour
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Isn't Over Legend's drummer named Travis? I played with him on one of his school breaks back in Summer 2007...I wish I lived in Boston, I'd join his band in a minute!!!
GeddyMyung
Member
Yes, they were just down here last week. We played a couple of shows with them. We are trying to get them to move down here when they are finished with school. Appartently, the metal scene is better here than in Boston these days. I think they were surprised to find another prog band in these parts. We were like a big family for the week they were in town.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
So... does being a "Christian" Metal band sentence you to a career in obscurity? Judging by the names mentioned in this thread, it would seem so. Or is there a band I missed, who is a well established touring act?
Zod
Zod
AngraRULES
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That's awesome...Travis is a monster drummer...I wish they'd move down here too so I could sing for them...
sh0kr0k
Active Member
Many people dismiss "Christian Metal" bands automatically simply because of the lyrical content. So basically, yeah you're right, the bands remain obscure and largely ignored.
Pelata
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Many people dismiss "Christian Metal" bands automatically simply because of the lyrical content. So basically, yeah you're right, the bands remain obscure and largely ignored.
Which is weird when you consider how a blatantly obvious Christian song like "I Can Only Imagine" can top the mainstream radio charts...
There's this (incorrect) misconception amongst some Metal fans that Metal is inherently anti-Christian at it's core. Inherently rebellious in general, maybe...but it did not begin as this stark, anti-Christ movement. It's about rebellion and expression and whatever an artist wants to express, Satan, Christ, Pan, social commentary, party-til-you-puke...it's all welcome within the Halls Of Metal.
Pellaz
Tigron of Immanion
BtA are sorta-kinda neighbors, hailing from Dacula GA, right next to me in Auburn. Now signed to Life-Force Recs, as I recall, so they're taking the fight national.
Dominick_7
Member
Which is weird when you consider how a blatantly obvious Christian song like "I Can Only Imagine" can top the mainstream radio charts...
There's this (incorrect) misconception amongst some Metal fans that Metal is inherently anti-Christian at it's core. Inherently rebellious in general, maybe...but it did not begin as this stark, anti-Christ movement. It's about rebellion and expression and whatever an artist wants to express, Satan, Christ, Pan, social commentary, party-til-you-puke...it's all welcome within the Halls Of Metal.
I think because I Can Only Imagine fits within a church service and christian clickish context where as metal doesn't fit within either. It really has no place so much in church, can carry a "it's the devils music" attachment with some, much of it sounds 80s ish, BESIDES being metal which is not all that popular within pop musics realm on Christian or secular charts. It's not nu metal, alternative etc..seems like most other genres are allowed but metal?..The only place I see it being played is VH1. I could be wrong but the only places I see Christian metal having a place is via concerts, Christian venues, and obscure online or regular radio stations.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
I completely disagree.
Metal has always advocated for rebelling against authority, being an individual, drug exploration and sexual freedom. It's done so through its lyrics, its fashion and its artwork, as well as through the statements, actions and antics of its performers. Christianity stands in stark opposition to every aspect of this.
Rebelling against authority... the Church holds itself up to the world as the ultimate authority. Metal songs have never suggested you should rebel against all authorities... except the really big ones.
Individualism... the Church preaches complete and total conformity. In its own language, in its own holy texts, it refers (time and time again) to its followers as "sheep". This is not my word, this is theirs. This is not individualism.
Sexuality... the church is against almost all sexuality. Even within the confines of marriage, the Church places restrictions on sexuality. Granted, there are more liberal churches and no two churches preach an identical message. However, I don't think anyone is going to confuse the church's position on sexuality and what WASP sings about.
Drug use... Christianity teaches us the body is a temple. Would someone like to argue that Metal musicians and their fans follow this rule?
Look, there's was a reason why churchgoers would frequently protest outside of Metal shows (back in the day); because the Church views Metal as the opposition.
Finally, let's talk about Metal's roots. I think most would say Metal began with Black Sabbath. Uhhh.... Black Sabbath? What does that name tell you? Judas Priest? Judas friggin Priest? Seriously? What about Metal's root would suggest it's not anti-religion?
Look... if someone wants to listen to or write Christian Metal... knock your socks off. If you like it, find inspiration from it or just want to bang your head to it... great. I'm of the belief that whatever makes you happy, that doesn't harm others, you should do. However, to suggest that Christianity and Metal create the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup of the musical world, truly borders on silliness. If we're being fair, then we must admit, the idea of Christian Metal is about as internally consistent as Satanic Gospel music.
Zod
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The first two yes...the second two no...the hippies were already doing that. Rebellion, freedom and non-conformity. You relate them all as being against the church on some level, and they are...one some level...but not as the singular root cause. Rebellion against parents, government, sociey's rules, injustice, etc...while the church has indeed perpetrated some of these to a degree, it is certainly not the only offender. It just so happens that the "ultimate" rebellion would be to rebel against "God" and the church (which, as you pointed out, has set itself up as the ultimate authority), and in an attempt to be as extreme as possible that's where some of it went...once you rebel against religion and the idea of God, there is nothing left to rebel against.
The name Black Sabbath came from a movie and many of thier lyrics warned agaisnt evil...they were by no means a Christian act, obviously, but they weren't being "evil" for the sake of rebelling against the church...as evil as the song Black Sabbath sounds, it's simply about having the shit scared out of you...not about rebelling aginst the church.
"Judas Priest" was an expression...like "Holy shit!" or "Jesus Christ!"...it sounded cool, it sounded dangerous...it sounded Metal.
And, like all things, there is musical and thematic evolution...things change. You can find Metal music expressing many different Spiritual viewpoints these days...there is no reason some people can't continue to incorporate Christianity as long as there are Pagan, Satanic, Humanistic and other religious themes within Metal...
To attempt to keep Metal within any sort of confines is like trying to get the ocean into a soda bottle...
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
The fact that the hippies were already doing such things, doesn't diminish the fact that Metal took up the cause.
It's not really about whether it's an offender. It's about the fundamental idea that the two stand in direct opposition.
While early Metal bands may not have been as brazzen as thier Black Metal decendants, there's no denying that the image, attitudes, style and artwork, were hardly Christian.
Do these look like pro-Christian images?
Any song that advocates sex out of the confines of wedlock, expresses an idea that stands in opposition to Christian teachings. Any album cover that features a scantily clad woman, expresses an idea that stands in opposition to Christian teachings. Any song that advocates for getting drunk or high, expresses an idea that stands in opposition to Christian teachings. Almost everything about Metal, stands in opposition to Christianity.
You can infuse anything you like into Metal, from Jazz to Bhuddism. However, a lot things simply won't fit, and will consequently be dismissed by the vast majority of Metal fans. Christian Metal, given its popularity relative to the overall popularity of the genre, is clearly one such infusion.
And attempting to reconcile Christianity and Metal, is like trying to put an ocean in a somewhat smaller Red Bull can.
In the end, if you like it and believe the two are a natural pairing, that's all that matters. Personally, I think it's something of an unnatural pairing, but hey... to each his own.
Zod
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The church, in cases like these, simply needs something to rail against in order to make themselves appear as (and feel like) some sort of authority...it diverts attention from it's own glaring discrepancies. There is nothing Christian about a mob of people screaming at teenagers walking into a concert telling them that they're going to hell.
Church groups have been railing aginst "the devil's music" ever since Elvis...this is nothing new.
Pelata
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I never said Metal was "pro-Christian". Metal is music...a style...a variation of organized sound. What made Metal rebellious was the attitudes, the people making it, and they were rebelling against many things, not just the Christian church. You make it sound as if Metal was birthed for the sole purpose of railing against and pissing off the Christian church. Metal was birthed by people wanting to do thier own thign thier own way with a middle finger to any authority...rebellion.
A lot of it is against religion in general...the idea of being controlled by a god...the fact that many people develop raging superiority complexes based on the god of thier choosing. Christianity has asserted itself as a self-imposed authority claiming moral and spiritual superiority so, by default, it gets the most attention from the rebellious crowds. If it were Hinduism or Druidism telling people "you can't do this and you can't do that", then it would be Hinduism or Druidism that free people were rebelling against.
GeddyMyung
Member
I've played in several 'secular' metal bands for the past 15 years that I've been playing bass. Most of the crowds at the venues are the other bands and their wives/girlfriends. Back in October of last year, I joined a Christian metal band for the first time. I'll admit I was a little skeptical of the idea myself. First of all, playing prog is definitely not going to bring the masses, but add the 'Christian' label on top of that certainly puts us in a hole from the start. So, I see the point being made. However, in the last 8 months, I've played in front of more people that actually appreciate the music AND the message than I have in the previous 15 years. I'll be the first to admit there are a lot of fake people in the Church, but no one can tell me there is no market for this music. I can't understand why, on the ProgPower forum of all places, there is a debate over lyrical content of metal. I listen to Rhapsody and Blind Guardian, but I don't truly believe in dragons and wizards. No one rails against Symphony X for their vast knowledge/research in lyrics pertaining to classic literature. If you don't believe in biblical teachings, that's fine (to me), but what is the difference in writing lyrics based on biblical ideas/ideals versus The Odyssey or Paradise Lost? One of the reasons I got into prog/power metal is that the lyrics are typically more interesting (to me) than many of the 'old school' metal acts.
Darren
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General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Again, the fact that this is not new, does little to diminish the point. The church does not rail against those things with which it shares a common value system.
I didn't say it was only rebelling against the church. However, the church is high up on the list of things being it rebels against.
True. However, you did say it was a misconception that Metal is inherently anti-Christian. It's on this point we disagree. I believe Metal is inherently anti-religious. And since Metal originated in countries where Christianity was/is the popular religion, I would say by default, it's anti-Christian. Again, we can simply agree to disagree.
To be clear, I didn't say there wasn't a market for this music. I only pointed out that the market is negligible, when compared to other sub genres within Metal. For example, there are dozens of Metal bands that tour internationally. Are there any Christian Metal acts that do so?
And I never understand why people are surprised when any aspect of music is discussed on a music discussion forum.
Because the bible has social, cultural and political impacts on the world we live in. I don't mean to be sarcastic, but a Lord of the Rings reader didn't just execute a doctor in front of his wife and children. People who believe in dragons haven't been attempting to limit the reproductive rights of women. People who love unicorns haven't been blocking (stem cell) potentially life saving research from receiving government funding.
Look... I get that there are many different branches of Christianity that fall all along the social and political spectrum. And we can debate the political and moral aspects of any of the above issues. However, I think we should be able to agree that there's a stark difference between the social and cultural implications of what Tolkien teaches and what scripture teaches.
If any of what I've written comes across as disrespectful to yours or any other reader's beliefs, please understand, that's not my intention. I simply find the discussion to be an interesting one. Cheers.
Zod
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It's all good...I'm not offended...just doing the discussion thing.
I should clarify something. When I hear the term "anti-Christian" as in "Metal is anti-Christian", I take it to mean that the implication is that Metal was created to destroy God/the church since, on other forums, this is how it's presented. I just do not believe this is the case. There are indeed Metal bands who hate God/Christianity/the church and do all they can (ie. write songs about it) to tear it down in allegiance to some other god. So when I hear "anti-Christian" this is what springs to mind. I can see that this is not what you're referring to.
But it does seem that you're saying Metal can express pretty much anything it wants except for a spirituality that goes against rebellion/sex/drugs while I'm saying that a musician playing Metal can express whatever they want...art is art and Metal is art.
And, I know you know this but, wackos who kill abortion doctors in the name of god are just that...wackos. Just like wackos who fly planes into buildings in the name of god. IMO, those Christians who attempt to impose their religion into government and expect government to abide by it are wasting their time...and those Christians who are moved to kill believing they are doing God's will are obviously mentally unstable.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Cool.
I don't believe that either. And I don't view them as opposing forces. One is a belief system and one is an art form. I simply view that art form as having an anti, or at very least, antagonistic view of religion. And to that end, I view the idea of Christian Metal as something of an oxymoron.
I am saying that. In much the same way you could rewrite the lyrics to John Lennon's music and make those songs pro-war instead of pro-peace, you can write Christian Metal. I just think it's a strange idea, that goes against the idea of Metal.
Agreed. As I'll often due in a debate/discussion, I'll use an extreme example to illustrate a point. And although that example is an extreme one, I feel it helps illustrate my point. We can all agree that unicorns, wizards and dragons are creatures of fantasy. Consequently, they make for a subject matter that compliments Metal's over the top nature quite nicely. Conversely, religion is a belief system for which some are willing to kill or die. I'm not sure how someone could suggest there's no difference between the two.
Zod
sh0kr0k
Active Member
I've got to jump in here. To say that the true nature of metal is simply rebellion might have been true in it's early days, but isn't it possible that we've progressed beyond that by now? A style was born from an ideal, and now that style has evolved to include a wider range of thought and expression. I don't listen to metal because I'm feeling rebellious. I listen to it because I like how it sounds. Period. And I'm certain there are musicians who write metal songs because they like the sound, not because they have something to rebel against. Metal is no longer a shocking conduit for a fringe belief, it's simply a form of music. We can make a case for country music, reggae, blues, punk.....
You know as well as I do that I'm staunchly religious, as are hundreds of thousands of people who enjoy metal on a daily basis. Are we all wrong? Is metal a religion of it's own, preaching a gospel of rebellion, drug-use, and sexual freedom? Are those things prerequisites for being a metalhead?
So while I think both sides of this argument have a point, I think you're both missing the fact that society and culture (being so heavily influenced by Christianity, as Zod stated) will eventually have an impact/influence on anything that the said society produces, thus evolving it.
It might seem weird to some people that Christians might actually like the sound of metal and write it themselves, but I don't think that makes it objectively "illogical" or outside the realm of credibility.
If the idea of metal is non-conformity, then why should it stick to a set of standards?
Must say, I totally hate the term "Christian Metal" for the very same reason. Lyrical content doesn't determine the style of metal being played.
And back to discussing the bands themselves. Anyone have an ETA on Legend III:II from Savior Machine? *le-sigh* Still one of the coolest live shows I've ever seen!
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