Matt Barlow is back with Iced Earth! Good choice or bad?

[skyrefuge]

Another "poll" on this topic can be done by looking at the last.fm data for Iced Earth.

In the list of most-listened-to songs in the last 6 months, the first Owens song doesn't appear until #22 ("Ten Thousand Strong"), and the first song from 'The Glorious Burden' ("Declaration Day") doesn't appear until #32.

As a control in the experiment, Amon Amarth (a band without any significant changes) has all the songs from their last two albums packed near the top of their list in the top 20 or so places.

As another control, Nightwish (a band who recently replaced a very popular singer) has four songs from their latest album in the their top 10.

Clearly there are many factors that affect relative album popularities, so the vocalist change can't be used to explain it all. But the facts show that, for whatever reason, the last two Iced Earth albums are significantly less popular than their previous efforts (at least among last.fm listeners).

Neil

 

[PureXul]

Another "poll" on this topic can be done by looking at the last.fm data for Iced Earth.

In the list of most-listened-to songs in the last 6 months, the first Owens song doesn't appear until #22 ("Ten Thousand Strong"), and the first song from 'The Glorious Burden' ("Declaration Day") doesn't appear until #32.

As a control in the experiment, Amon Amarth (a band without any significant changes) has all the songs from their last two albums packed near the top of their list in the top 20 or so places.

As another control, Nightwish (a band who recently replaced a very popular singer) has four songs from their latest album in the their top 10.

Clearly there are many factors that affect relative album popularities, so the vocalist change can't be used to explain it all. But the facts show that, for whatever reason, the last two Iced Earth albums are significantly less popular than their previous efforts (at least among last.fm listeners).

Neil

I don't disagree with your conclusion at all, but one thing worth pointing out is that both Amon Amarth and Nightwish have toured the US in the past month or so which would generally cause a spike in interest in newer material. It's hard to say how much of a spike, but had Iced Earth done a US tour promoting "Framing Armageddon", I think the Ripper-era material would fare a bit better.

 

[BlindPanzer]

I like Iced Earth, both with Owens and Barlow but I can see rms' points. I think he has made his statements pretty clear, no need to bring down his argument by judging him rather than the argument.

 

[SkiBumMSP]

A quickie.

While everybody can keep going around in circles about who they think was "better" in Iced Earth, while having just listened to Burnt Offerings and then Framing Armageddon virtually back-to-back, I'll unequivocally say that they BOTH kicked ass! There is no denying that Barlow and 'The Ripper' are both awesome vocalists that seems to add thier own flavor to the whole thing. I guess it just comes down to what flavor one prefers. I can sit and enjoy the material sung by either one or both. Will be interesting to see how "Part 2" will be with Barlow supposedly now doing the vocals on it. As for Tim Owens, I hope the departure is very amicable and not the "Thanks! Your awesome, but - see yeah and don't let the door hit you in the fanny on the way out!" type.

 

[TheLongshot]

Personally, I have mixed feelings about this whole thing. Personally, I think it is wonderful that Barlow is back. But, I really think the timing on this sucks for Ripper, and it might suck for Framing Armageddon. Ripper was just getting established as the lead singer, with an album really suited for his voice. Also, we are halfway done with a two part concept album. Having some consistency would be a good thing in my eyes. Not to mention that it always looks bad when you suddenly kick a member of the band to the curb like this.

Also, I have a selfish reason for Ripper to stick around a little longer: I wanted to see him live. Unfortunately, I missed the last tour, more than likely because I had another commitment when they were in town. Now, I might not get to see either album he was on performed as intended.

Jason

 

[Winds]

I am personally happy that Barlow is back. I never really did like Owens...at all. Just preference I guess. I was extremely happy when I herd the news that he came back to metal to sing for Pyramaze. That caught me completely off-guard. I woke up to my phone full of messages. And now another unexpected move by Barlow, and once again my phone was full of messages lol. I wish they would re-record the vocals for Framing Armageddon with Barlow, though that would probably be the biggest dick move any band has ever made, in regard to Owens.

 

[EJC_74]

It's funny that I don't recall MAIDEN or PRIEST getting trashed for the returning of Halford and Dickinson or any thought of the feelings of Ripper or Blaze Bayley when they were relieved of duties. And, I loved Ripper in PRIEST and Blaze with MAIDEN, but I prefer Halford and Dickinson in their respective roles. Jon missed Matt and praised Ripper when he got him. Of course he said how great it was to get Ripper. What's he going to say? "Well, we had to settle for second best, so we got Tim Owens." VAN HALEN got DLR back and the tickets sell like hotcakes. Business is business is business. Nothing more and nothing less. I'm fucking ecstatic that Barlow is back except for the fact that the North American tour is off for now and touring has to revolve around Matt's career. Check out Bravewords.com to check that news tidbit.

I would check out the BW&BK site for that if the damn page would load! I've been trying since the issue w/I.E. was announced, but I keep getting:
"Page Cannot Be Displayed" Not my browser obviously I am on here! I even added that whole page to allowed sites in it, & my firewall. No clue why the fuck it won't load for me!

[P.S. Whatever happened to the emoticon of the smiley slamming his head into a brickwall in frustration?]

 

[Creeps]

It's funny that I don't recall MAIDEN or PRIEST getting trashed for the returning of Halford and Dickinson or any thought of the feelings of Ripper or Blaze Bayley when they were relieved of duties. And, I loved Ripper in PRIEST and Blaze with MAIDEN, but I prefer Halford and Dickinson in their respective roles. Jon missed Matt and praised Ripper when he got him. Of course he said how great it was to get Ripper. What's he going to say? "Well, we had to settle for second best, so we got Tim Owens." VAN HALEN got DLR back and the tickets sell like hotcakes. Business is business is business. Nothing more and nothing less. I'm fucking ecstatic that Barlow is back except for the fact that the North American tour is off for now and touring has to revolve around Matt's career. Check out Bravewords.com to check that news tidbit.

Good point, BUT, Ripper & Barlowe are in nowhere near the same league as the Metal God, Dickinson and Diamond Dave.

Now, before the fires get higher, YES I know that DLR isn't the most talented singer, but the man puts the "show" in showboat. He's a top-notch entertainer for rock 'n roll.

Halford and Bruce need no defense for what they've done and continue to do in metal.

 

[Creeps]

I don't disagree with your conclusion at all, but one thing worth pointing out is that both Amon Amarth and Nightwish have toured the US in the past month or so which would generally cause a spike in interest in newer material. It's hard to say how much of a spike, but had Iced Earth done a US tour promoting "Framing Armageddon", I think the Ripper-era material would fare a bit better.

The toured a hellofa lot more places w/ Ripper singing than with Matt. Hell Jon is from Florida and they hadn't played a Florida date in years until Tim joined the band. Jon was also the person who personally told me that there was no market for metal in Florida anymore at PP when he was there. There's a HUGE market for metal in Florida. I think he was miffed that probably the last time he played Florida Pearl Jam was the flavor of the month and he maybe sold 5 tickets.

 

[Creeps]

Also, I have a selfish reason for Ripper to stick around a little longer: I wanted to see him live. Unfortunately, I missed the last tour, more than likely because I had another commitment when they were in town. Now, I might not get to see either album he was on performed as intended.

Jason

I saw him both in Priest and IE, you'll be impressed when you get to seem him in another band. Beyond Fear is a decent disc, pick that one up. He's done shows with that band with Anthrax for a while, they're buds. I'm sure he'll be coming around again.

 

[Dustro25]

im happy. this is good news.

 

[PureXul]

The toured a hellofa lot more places w/ Ripper singing than with Matt. Hell Jon is from Florida and they hadn't played a Florida date in years until Tim joined the band. Jon was also the person who personally told me that there was no market for metal in Florida anymore at PP when he was there. There's a HUGE market for metal in Florida. I think he was miffed that probably the last time he played Florida Pearl Jam was the flavor of the month and he maybe sold 5 tickets.

My point wasn't where they've toured with Ripper, my point was how recently they've toured in relation to how recently they've toured compared to how recently Amon Amarth and Nightwish have toured.

 

[ratanda]

Or maybe his mindset changed and he wanted to do it again? I'm pretty sure you're not him, so I doubt you really know what would be "true to himself"

He still said what he said, and went against it.

What'd he say?

 

[...AndTimeBegan]

He didnt say anything when he joined Pyramaze

WRONG

Brothers and sisters... The last time I made a statement to the metal community it was one of sorrow but certainly not one of regret.

There are people, things and experiences — once not thought possible — that I have attained in the last several years. It's an extension of friends and family that has truly made my life whole, and one that I would not jeopardize for fame and glory.

That thought in mind, I was posed an interesting proposition by a true talent in heavy metal. Honestly, I had not heard a lot about PYRAMAZE, when I received an e-mail from Michael. After our initial correspondence I began to realize that this was a guy that really had his head in the right place — a musician who was in music for the music. Michael spoke to me of his band — a bunch of guys who want to put out solid music but would not sacrifice their souls to attain greatness. This is by no means a slam on I.E. or any of the great musicians I have worked with in the past. It simply means that the music industry can suck you in, chew you up, and spit you out if you don't keep firmly planted on the ground. PYRAMAZE are working class metal heads with something to prove! Metal is what they live for but it is not their livelihood.

Needless to say, I was instantly intrigued by Michael's delivery. Especially considering the nature of my career choice of late. I wondered if Michael had really thought the courting process through. I'm sure that there are some people that never really understood my reasons for leaving the industry and certainly don't like who or what i represent in my current vocation. There is also the fact that PYRAMAZE has been rather stereotyped as a prog-metal act and I as Satan / Paul Stanley. What kind of crazy mixed up world is this????

Well... The way I see it... I'm in a point in my life, where I love what I do for a living and for the first time, I can support myself and my family doing it. Now, for the other great thing... That's how this band thinks. There is no expectation of co-signing (under the name Mephistopheles) in order to have your record sell. The record will sell if the music is great. The music will be great, because the guys doing it, want to do it... For all the right reasons. PYRAMAZE has proven that!

I sense hesitation... And rightly so... After all, there are a lot of I.E. fans out there that still just don't get it. I would imagine that there are also PYRAMAZE fans that love what Mr. King did for this band. Hell, I love what he did for this band! I think that the guy is a true talent and feel the same about Tim Owens (that's Ripper to you!). I also feel, that in the same way I.E. fans have taken Tim into the fold, I too can find a place within the PYRAMAZE family. I would venture to say that PYRAMAZE, already unique and uncompromising, will not be placed inside of a prog-metal box once the sparks start flying.

I am really looking forward to working with Michael and the guys!!! I also look forward to hearing feedback from the brethren and sisterhood of metal.

Up from the ashes, back from the depths, when the voices have risen, fire becomes flesh!

His reasoning behind joining Pyramaze fits with the comments he made in 2003. Nobody had gone back on their word. Now as for joining IE, it's wise to wait and see what Barlow says before pointing fingers and making up rumors as if this is People magazine or something.

However, even if by joining Iced Earth is (to you) immoral and doesn't fit with your code- to let that stop you from listening to a possibly great album shows everyone how ignorant and close-minded you are. Nothing is more hypocritical than listening to music for the artist, rather than the art itself.


The fact is that with Tim, Iced Earth gained more notoriety and sold more albums than they ever could have with Barlow. Iced Earth wouldn't have sold out 1,000-person clubs in the States on that tour with Bodom/Evergrey and neither would have they gotten the gig with Heaven And Hell/Lamb Of God in Europe had Barlow remained in the band. If anything, hiring Barlow back shows Jon's true balls and love for the music itself. We'll see what happens at this point, but we can make the assumption that with Tim, the band would have probably gotten much much MUCH bigger. Personally though, I applaud Jon for making the right move after all.

I don't feel bad for Tim in the slightest. Nobody here can say they fronted two of the most legendary metal bands of all time or had a feature length high-budget film based on your story (Rock Star), could you? I know I can't . He'll bounce back and do something else.

 

[Denis]

If you don't understand the simple analogy, theres no point. And im trying to find his message when he left IE for better proof but cant find anything.

I found it with no problem... http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=5342


Vocalist Matt Barlow has announced his departure from Iced Earth in order to pursue a career doing administrative work for the Department of Homeland Security.
The following is Barlow's official statement on the matter:
"In December of last year, prior to Iced Earth signing a new record deal, [Iced Earth mainman] Jon [Schaffer] and I had a sit-down concerning what I felt was best for my future and the future of Iced Earth. I told him that my heart was no longer into performing music and I intended to stand down from my position in the band in pursuit of what I felt would be a more satisfying career and consequently a more fulfilled life. Jon was very adamant that I should not leave the band, and asked me not to do something that I might live to regret. I was compelled to stay with it, but as it turns out my course had remained altered.
"For you to understand my position on this matter, I feel I must explain myself. As for many people, in and outside of the United States, the events of September 11, 2001 had a profound impact. For me personally, it shined a new light on life. It forced me to realize how precious and how short life is. I feel very fortunate to have been a part of something that has affected so many throughout the world, but I believe that what I am striving for will also reflect positively on those I come in contact with.
"I am presently going to school in order to obtain my Bachelor's Degree in Criminal Justice Administration. When I have received my degree, I intend to follow with a career in law enforcement administration.
"I realize that it may be difficult for some of you to understand the decision that has been made, but please believe that it has been made to preserve the integrity of Iced Earth. I know that there will be people who bad-mouth the band and me for this and that there will never be a good enough explanation. For those people, I feel pity that they must live through others and I hope that someday they will find themselves in another place. I have been on a great ride with all of you and I have not a single regret. There are great things to come from Iced Earth and we will all be there to witness them. I wish Jon and the guys well and I thank you in advance for your support and understanding.
"Best wishes,
"Matt"


That is not being a hypocrit, that is having a change of heart and in no way does Matt have to explain and give reason for this. It is as simple as human nature to be so emotionally moved to do what he felt was needed.

I can't say exactly how he felt then or now, but I know how 911 effected me and still does.

I like Tim on GB, not so much on the new one, but I still like it to some degree. I am stoked about Matt back in IE!!!!

 

[rms]

WRONG




His reasoning behind joining Pyramaze fits with the comments he made in 2003. Nobody had gone back on their word. Now as for joining IE, it's wise to wait and see what Barlow says before pointing fingers and making up rumors as if this is People magazine or something.

However, even if by joining Iced Earth is (to you) immoral and doesn't fit with your code- to let that stop you from listening to a possibly great album shows everyone how ignorant and close-minded you are. Nothing is more hypocritical than listening to music for the artist, rather than the art itself.


The fact is that with Tim, Iced Earth gained more notoriety and sold more albums than they ever could have with Barlow. Iced Earth wouldn't have sold out 1,000-person clubs in the States on that tour with Bodom/Evergrey and neither would have they gotten the gig with Heaven And Hell/Lamb Of God in Europe had Barlow remained in the band. If anything, hiring Barlow back shows Jon's true balls and love for the music itself. We'll see what happens at this point, but we can make the assumption that with Tim, the band would have probably gotten much much MUCH bigger. Personally though, I applaud Jon for making the right move after all.

I don't feel bad for Tim in the slightest. Nobody here can say they fronted two of the most legendary metal bands of all time or had a feature length high-budget film based on your story (Rock Star), could you? I know I can't . He'll bounce back and do something else.

He doesn't even address his old letter, all he says it was of sorrow and this one isn't. And I haven't stopped listening to Iced Earth because of this, I personally find Iced Earth extremely boring and never got into them.

 

[Magius]

...The fact is that with Tim, Iced Earth gained more notoriety and sold more albums than they ever could have with Barlow. Iced Earth wouldn't have sold out 1,000-person clubs in the States on that tour with Bodom/Evergrey and neither would have they gotten the gig with Heaven And Hell/Lamb Of God in Europe had Barlow remained in the band. If anything, hiring Barlow back shows Jon's true balls and love for the music itself. We'll see what happens at this point, but we can make the assumption that with Tim, the band would have probably gotten much much MUCH bigger...

A much overlooked point. Regardless of which singer one may prefer it's Ripper that brought Iced Earth to the level they are today. Many Barlow fans may want to dispute that, but only because they fail to see, or choose not to see, the amount of prominance afforded to an underground band when the lead singer of Judas Priest joins them.

"The Glorious Burden" has sold over 70,000 copies and "Framming Armageddon" was the highest debuting album Iced Earth ever reaching #78 on the the Billboard 200 chart. That's what Ripper brought to the band.

For the record I have liked Iced Earth with all of the four singers, even Adam and Greely. Barlow and Ripper are just another two through the revolving door as far as I'm concerned. I'd take Iced Earth with either without preference, so I didn't vote in this poll.

I do find it interesting that Barlow left Iced Earth because he couldn't make a living at it. A major reason he joined Pyramaze was because he could keep his day job and still make music.

"...a musician who was in music for the music. Michael spoke to me of his band — a bunch of guys who want to put out solid music but would not sacrifice their souls to attain greatness. This is by no means a slam on I.E. or any of the great musicians I have worked with in the past. It simply means that the music industry can suck you in, chew you up, and spit you out if you don't keep firmly planted on the ground. PYRAMAZE are working class metal heads with something to prove! Metal is what they live for but it is not their livelihood."

Now that Iced Earth is a viable money maker, and with "Revalation Abomination" poised to be a very successful followup to "Framming Armageddon, " a tour to rival any in the band's history, and a proper DVD to be released... Barlow's back. In fairness I'm sure Schaffer asked him back, and it wasn't Barlow who asked to replace Ripper. Still, I can understand the skepticism of some.

I'm curious to see how well "Revelation Abomination" does in comparison to " Framing Armageddon" when it's released.

 

[...AndTimeBegan]

He doesn't even address his old letter, all he says it was of sorrow and this one isn't. And I haven't stopped listening to Iced Earth because of this, I personally find Iced Earth extremely boring and never got into them.

Did you actually read that entire quote? He clearly states that now that he can support his family and himself financially he do music again. He also states that his stint with Pyramaze does not include heavy touring and anything else that can be attributed to the 'rockstar' life. The reason he left Iced Earth in the first place (according to both Barlow's and Schaffer's old letters) was because he felt that he was living a lie (the music industry) and no longer wanted to be a 'rockstar'. Since Pyramaze does not tour and is not a full-fledged "band" per se, Barlow felt it was perfect for him to kill two birds with one stone.


NOW, as I said in my first post, joining IE changes things a bit. I'd like to see what the reasoning is behind this. Most likely though, Magius may have answered this.

And either way, WHO CARES? Do you gossip about band members' personal lives and make blanket assumptions like this about the bands you actually like? Wow. It's the music that counts, and quite frankly I would love to hear an Iced Earth album with Barlow that features the production and musicianship of the last two albums.

 

[rms]

So first he left because he was living a lie, and he came back because he could make more money? This doesn't add up.

And I just said as to answer the poll, I said he should've stayed out of music like he said, oh well.

 

[...AndTimeBegan]

So first he left because he was living a lie, and he came back because he could make more money? This doesn't add up.

And I just said as to answer the poll, I said he should've stayed out of music like he said, oh well.

No it doesn't add up, that's why I'm going to wait to hear what he has to say about it. Regardless, it's not going to stop me from seeing Iced Earth live or from enjoying the next record.