nomisofsiman
Member
Pretty much my feeling on it as well. I'm guessing when people talk Savatage, they're talking the lineup on the final album, Poets and Madmen.
SAVATAGE reunion at Wacken 2015!
- Thread starter AngraRULES
- Start date
Pretty much my feeling on it as well. I'm guessing when people talk Savatage, they're talking the lineup on the final album, Poets and Madmen.
Justin G
Member
I think you're wrong there. I think people expect a few constants - Oliva, Middleton, Caffery and Stevens. There's a gray area with the drum and lead guitar spots I think.
Oblivion Ocean
Member
Well I think many people think think of as Savatage is generally the Paul O'neil period. Sure there is some love for songs like Sirens and City Beneath the Surface, but honestly aside from a few old school metal people I doubt they are headlining Wacken in the strength of Power of the Night and Fight for the Rock.
So if the Paul O'neil era is basically is 8 albums (Hall to Poets) Jon only sang on half of those, Johnny Lee Middleton played on all of those, Caffery played on half of them and the drums realistically were always split between Wacholz and Plate. So for me Jon and a bunch of random musicians is far from Savatage.Again, since Jon was not the main vocalist on a good number of their prominent albums declarative statements such as "Any band who puts together is going to sound like Savatage" seem a little suspect. Much of that music was written to fit Zak's vocals, To me Jon singing some of those songs does nnot instantly sound like Savatage.
TwizstedJesus
Member
- Mar 1, 2004
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Jon Oliva helped write a lot of the material that Zak sang on over the years and was always a part of the Savatage family. Whether or not Zak joins Savatage or not, bottom line, Oliva=Savatage. I consider Caffery the other glue in the Savatage pie
labrekk
Member
Fight For The Rock sucks.
But Sirens, The Dungeons Are Calling, Power Of The Night and Hall Of The Mountain King is "classic" Savatage for many people.
PromisedLand
Master of Corgis
- Sep 3, 2013
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I am just waiting to hear Bob try to justify that this would have sold out this quickly even without Savatage being there, and that they aren't a draw anyhow....
Doesn't Wacken generally sell out the first day it goes on sale, regardless of lineup?
Oblivion Ocean
Member
Well, if we are changing the criteria from performing to writing, than I would argue Savatage is equal parts Paul O'Neil and Criss Oliva. For me nothing Zak or Jon have done outside of the Savatage brand has come close to the Savatage stuff. I honestly think it is because the writing collaborations are producing the great music.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Jasonic
Doom On!
Well, considering this is following a TSO performance, people will expect both Plate and Pitrelli as well.
Jasonic
Doom On!
This is basically how I view it, too. When JOP/CIIC toured in 2008, I just referred to it as "going to see Savatage". I would be happy with any Savatage "reunion" using that name for a Jon Oliva & Chris Caffery-fronted band playing all songs that come from Savatage albums.
I do think there are some - many - fans out there that don't have real awareness of Zak and Jon's continuing projects. They don't realize that there is a Jon Oliva's Pain or that there is a Circle II Circle. But the name Savatage gets their attention.
Diabolik
Member
sadly I don't think you were joking...again I will post the video for you since you may need to watch it again to learn from....
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J. Golden
Heaven and Hell Records
Think those fans out there they may not know of JOP or CIIC are those same fans that do not know there are albums after 'Gutter Ballet, and that is not many, the world just isn't that small and informational -less anymore. HAHA
As for "a gray area" theory well then that would suggest that Johnny Lee Middleton is the only original and consistent member of the post- O'Neill band. I suppose you can say that is the factor that makes the band Savatage, it would be no more odd than what Riot is now. Well Riot actually have no original members now.
I suppose it could be argue that there are two Savatage bands; pre-O'Neill and post O'Neill which many will not disagree to that. Still there have always been player changes.
Anyway, whatever argument to the case the one and only constant is Jon no matter if he is just writing. Like Iommi with Sabbath it is Jon's band and whatever is put together with him is Savatage. Perhaps I could see anything else he may do as something different if it comes out not sounding like Savatage, but it hasn't yet.
Savatage has gone past being a band and is now a institution of sorts. Like TSO it can change up players and it is STILL pretty much Savatage. Regardless who is playing guitar, if Jon is singing songs written for Zak, or even is Middleton is there or not, all that is need is Jon.
As for "a gray area" theory well then that would suggest that Johnny Lee Middleton is the only original and consistent member of the post- O'Neill band. I suppose you can say that is the factor that makes the band Savatage, it would be no more odd than what Riot is now. Well Riot actually have no original members now.
I suppose it could be argue that there are two Savatage bands; pre-O'Neill and post O'Neill which many will not disagree to that. Still there have always been player changes.
Anyway, whatever argument to the case the one and only constant is Jon no matter if he is just writing. Like Iommi with Sabbath it is Jon's band and whatever is put together with him is Savatage. Perhaps I could see anything else he may do as something different if it comes out not sounding like Savatage, but it hasn't yet.
Savatage has gone past being a band and is now a institution of sorts. Like TSO it can change up players and it is STILL pretty much Savatage. Regardless who is playing guitar, if Jon is singing songs written for Zak, or even is Middleton is there or not, all that is need is Jon.
edgeofthorns
24 Hours Ago...
I don't agree with you here. JOP in particular is a very strong band and have written material on an equal plain as Savatage. My recommendation is that you go back and listen to the JOP catalog...practically flawless!
~Brian~
Jasonic
Doom On!
I know Wacken sells out quickly..
You stated previously that the Savatage reunion has nothing to do with this. I think there are many people who are going and bought a ticket because of the reunion.
J. Golden
Heaven and Hell Records
I was just talking about this with my fiance, we both agree that none of this stuff is really as good as the stuff under the Savatage name. However it all does have a very Savatage quality. As if it was all Savatage material just not all of it is good enough for the accepted "Savatage" canon.
Ok this is honestly a stupid debate, fun nonetheless but got other things to do. Simply put Jon is an amazing writer and whatever he does is gold or certainly close to it.
um, can't believe I'm probably in agreeance about something with must of this forum. I guess stranger things have happened
Azrael LenGraden
Lake Of Fire
KingsGene
God of Thunder
KingsGene
God of Thunder
JON OLIVA TALKS SAVATAGE REUNION SHOW AT WACKEN OPEN AIR 2015 - "I WOULDN’T RULE OUT THE POSSIBILITY OF THERE BEING A COUPLE MORE ON TOP OF THAT"
"...We know we’re going to start with 'Gutter Ballet', that’s all we agreed on (laughs). TSO is going to come out first for I think 40 or 50 minutes doing the big production numbers, then Paul is going to bring me out and we’re going to do the Savatage thing and we’re going to start with 'Gutter Ballet' and that’s where we ended the conversation and said we’ll pick this up on January 10th and we’ll figure out what we’re going to do as far as other shows go and everything like that."
"As of right now Wacken is the only place, but I’m sure once everything works out and we see what happens, I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of there being a couple more on top of that. I think we’re going to do a press release in maybe February or March about what’s going on and stuff like that. I think it’s cool that we’re doing it. I’m very excited about it. I’ve been on this health kick now for the last six months, I’ve dropped a bunch of weight and I’m feeling a lot better, I’ve still got a ways to go, but it gives me something, I’m like, yeah I’m going to get in shape for this and knock people out."
"...We know we’re going to start with 'Gutter Ballet', that’s all we agreed on (laughs). TSO is going to come out first for I think 40 or 50 minutes doing the big production numbers, then Paul is going to bring me out and we’re going to do the Savatage thing and we’re going to start with 'Gutter Ballet' and that’s where we ended the conversation and said we’ll pick this up on January 10th and we’ll figure out what we’re going to do as far as other shows go and everything like that."
"As of right now Wacken is the only place, but I’m sure once everything works out and we see what happens, I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of there being a couple more on top of that. I think we’re going to do a press release in maybe February or March about what’s going on and stuff like that. I think it’s cool that we’re doing it. I’m very excited about it. I’ve been on this health kick now for the last six months, I’ve dropped a bunch of weight and I’m feeling a lot better, I’ve still got a ways to go, but it gives me something, I’m like, yeah I’m going to get in shape for this and knock people out."
Megawozniak
Alex from Canada
I never got Savatage. I've been to metal fests around the world, and although I certainly haven't talked to *everyone*, I've never met a big Savatage fan, or anyone who even mentions them. They're ok with me and WOMD was pretty good, but I think this board builds up their popularity a bit! I can't imagine them moving a lot of tickets for Wacken.
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