Is pop starting to borrow from the Prog and power scene?

[adaher]

Okay, about two years ago I remember Evanescence coming out and I was thinking, "Cool, sounds like a simpler Within Temptation." All of a sudden my friends were into this style, despite my playing Nightwish for most of them about a year before and them showing no interest. Now I can get them to listen to Nightwish and Within Temptation. Why do teeny-boppers let their tastes get dictated to them? Never understood that. It's like, "I don't like it if I've never heard it on Top 40 radio, but as soon as I do, it's the bomb!"

Now we have Green Day's "American Idiot". I've always sorta liked Green Day, but today I was in the car with a friend and she was talking about Track 2, and how "Oh my God, it's 10 minutes long and the tempo changes! It's like several songs in one! It's awesome!"

I reminded her that I gave her Dream Theater's Change of Seasons to listen to a few years back and she complained about that very thing. I asked her if she wanted to hear Circus Maximus's "1st Chapter", since it's what I had on me at the time. Now that kind of music is decent, although Circus Maximus will always be a lesser band than Green Day to her simply because Circus Maximus doesn't have a prominent display at the record store. Sigh.

So, for anyone who has heard this Green Day song, do you think they came up with the idea on their own, or do you think one of them picked up a prog album at some point? Either way, it's cool to see pop fans now getting used to the idea of long songs with tempo changes. Not to mention American Idiot is a concept album and it's been a LONG time since a concept album made the charts.

 

[TheWhisper]

10 minutes...that is epic for a punk song. Though, in reference to Green Day, I use the term 'punk' very loosely.

 

[nightwish58]

Green Day is absolutely atrocious and should never even be mentioned on this forum. They and their kind make me sick to my stomach. I hate that shit!

 

[urinalcakemix]

Green Day is absolutely atrocious and should never even be mentioned on this forum. They and their kind make me sick to my stomach. I hate that shit!

Ignorance is divine. Just because they dont have keyboard/guitar duels, or blistering guitar solos doesn't mean their shit. Not being a fan of punk at all, I can honestly say Green Day are the best mainstream act of the past decade, and one of the few bands with lasting power. Each guy is sufficient at what they do, they don't aspire to be muisical geniuses or play in every time signature.

Perhaps you kids should learn to appreciate simpler forms of music.

 

[adaher]

Actually, the drummer and bass player are pretty awesome. And the music is solid straight-ahead hard rock/punk. And the new album shows maturity and branching out a little.

Any band that can stay relevant as long as Green Day has without compromising their sound deserves some respect. It's more than we can say for Metallica, a band that dropped their sound like a hot potato the second it showed signs of not being hip anymore.

 

[YanLeviathan]

Okay, about two years ago I remember Evanescence coming out and I was thinking, "Cool, sounds like a simpler Within Temptation." All of a sudden my friends were into this style, despite my playing Nightwish for most of them about a year before and them showing no interest. Now I can get them to listen to Nightwish and Within Temptation. Why do teeny-boppers let their tastes get dictated to them? Never understood that. It's like, "I don't like it if I've never heard it on Top 40 radio, but as soon as I do, it's the bomb!"

Now we have Green Day's "American Idiot". I've always sorta liked Green Day, but today I was in the car with a friend and she was talking about Track 2, and how "Oh my God, it's 10 minutes long and the tempo changes! It's like several songs in one! It's awesome!"

I reminded her that I gave her Dream Theater's Change of Seasons to listen to a few years back and she complained about that very thing. I asked her if she wanted to hear Circus Maximus's "1st Chapter", since it's what I had on me at the time. Now that kind of music is decent, although Circus Maximus will always be a lesser band than Green Day to her simply because Circus Maximus doesn't have a prominent display at the record store. Sigh.

So, for anyone who has heard this Green Day song, do you think they came up with the idea on their own, or do you think one of them picked up a prog album at some point? Either way, it's cool to see pop fans now getting used to the idea of long songs with tempo changes. Not to mention American Idiot is a concept album and it's been a LONG time since a concept album made the charts.

A bit off topic but I felt this was relevant:
My sisters in law visited me last week, their ages are 13,15,16,18. They hung out for a few days and I used that time to try and turn them onto some good music. Well anyone that knows teens knows that I was wasting my time. Each one of them liked different types of music ranging from NIN to Slipknot to Green Day. I admit, I like some of that stuff; most of it I don't. What is sad is that they didn't make a choice to listen to that stuff; they've been force fed that stuff by the "corporate machine". These kids (kids in general) think they are being rebelious by listening to "their" music. They have absolutley no idea that they have been programmed to do so. I tried explaining to them about demographics but I might as well have talked to the wall. I hate to say it but the U.S. is turning into a cultural wasteland; all people care about is who looks good, whose dating who, or whose got the most money. Its beyond sad. Thank goodness for Progpower and the fans that keep the metal spirit alive.

Every once in a while we get fan mail from teenagers and it just blows me away that these young people listen to bands like Maiden, Priest, Edguy, Hammerall, etc. Too bad its such a minority.

Yan

 

[AngraRULES]

I can honestly say Green Day are the best mainstream act of the past decade

Have you ever heard of System of a Down?

 

[urinalcakemix]

Have you ever heard of System of a Down?

yea, their crap for sure.

Hey Avian, Im one of those teen minorities! haha

 

[kittybeast]

What is sad is that they didn't make a choice to listen to that stuff; they've been force fed that stuff by the "corporate machine". These kids (kids in general) think they are being rebelious by listening to "their" music. They have absolutley no idea that they have been programmed to do so.
Yan

Bam! Hit the nail on the head with that one! My neice is the same way... though she's grown up with classic rock, but if it's "all the rage" she is so on it! I try myself..she says she listens, she says she likes it..that's about the entire conversation.

 

[adaher]

It's not the music industry, it's the fact that Americans don't actively seek out good music. They just turn on the radio, and if they like it, they like it. The music industry responds to the consumers, not the other way around.

I've heard valid criticisms of power and prog metal from thinking music fans. Too complex, too loud, too cheesy, too derivative, no soul, no rhythm, no feeling, etc. Of course, some bands are better than others in this respect, but in general I think we all know why Dream Theater isn't a chart-topping band and Linkin Park is.

This type of music appeals to certain narrow tastes. Pop music is designed to be widely appealing, and it has to keep changing because consumers get sick of it quickly. So in order for a band in our genre to make it big, they have to be original, at least somewhat related to a current trend, and not be too complex.

Although if Green Day is doing 10-minute songs with tempo changes and concept albums, I have to wonder if maybe Stride, Dreamscape, and Circus Maximus aren't coming out at just the right time. It would really be something for prog bands to make it thanks to Green Day, as many female-fronted bands have due to Evanescence.

 

[YanLeviathan]

Hey Avian, Im one of those teen minorities! haha[/QUOTE]

Well I am beyond proud of you and others like you for making your own choice and not falling under their command. I hope to see you in September.

Yan



Bam! Hit the nail on the head with that one! My neice is the same way... though she's grown up with classic rock, but if it's "all the rage" she is so on it! I try myself..she says she listens, she says she likes it..that's about the entire conversation.

Yeah, and then a month later you talk to them about the bands that they liked a month before and they say "oh I don't like them", I like these guys now.

Yan

 

[Bryant]

Green Day is absolutely atrocious and should never even be mentioned on this forum. They and their kind make me sick to my stomach. I hate that shit!

NO offense as I don't particularly care for Green Day, but if the truth be told, they write stuff that sticks in your head. ALL pop music is supposed to be like that, but that band is the tops at it. I don't like the nasal tone of the singer, but try as I might not to, I have found myself singing their songs.


Bryant

 

[AngraRULES]

yea, their crap for sure.

So GreenDay is better than SOAD?

Whatever kid....

 

[Heavenly Call]

I give my props to BOTH System of a Down AND Green Day. Green Day puts on a hell of a show live, for which I think they are to be commended. They realize that a concert is more than just about the music for most people. As for System of a Down, those are some creative sons a bitches! While I can't typically sit and listen to an entire album all the way through, a few songs here and there are refreshing.

What I wish I could see is how people on this board would react if prog/power music did get extremely popular. Right now we think it's cool when we see Nightwish being sold in Wal-Mart or Helloween videos getting played on MTV2 because they are exceptions. But what if everytime you turned on the radio they were playing Rage or Running Wild or Pink Cream 69...I think it would lose it's aura that we all appreciate.

I've noticed most underground music fans (as we are somewhat underground here) are quick to jump on Americans for "having music fed to them" or "being fairweather fans of bands", but the truth is, you WANT it to be like that. You don't want too much of our beloved prog/power in the mainstream. If other people don't like metal, so what? It's more personal like it is. EVERYONE on here has had some kind of really cool experience with these prog/power bands. They appreciate us because we take the time to SEARCH out their music and when we go to shows, we don't act crazy and mosh, but we respectfully listen (for the most part) and I think a lot of that comes from the mystique and relative obscurity of the music itself....besides, what would be gained from widespread recognition of these bands? The fact that we could get htem in concert more often? It just doesn't seem like a good trade off to me.

...okay, I'm not sure how much of that makes any sense and I'm not re-reading it...I'm going to bed now.

 

[Petethedrummer]

I give my props to BOTH System of a Down AND Green Day. Green Day puts on a hell of a show live, for which I think they are to be commended. They realize that a concert is more than just about the music for most people. As for System of a Down, those are some creative sons a bitches! While I can't typically sit and listen to an entire album all the way through, a few songs here and there are refreshing.

What I wish I could see is how people on this board would react if prog/power music did get extremely popular. Right now we think it's cool when we see Nightwish being sold in Wal-Mart or Helloween videos getting played on MTV2 because they are exceptions. But what if everytime you turned on the radio they were playing Rage or Running Wild or Pink Cream 69...I think it would lose it's aura that we all appreciate.

I've noticed most underground music fans (as we are somewhat underground here) are quick to jump on Americans for "having music fed to them" or "being fairweather fans of bands", but the truth is, you WANT it to be like that. You don't want too much of our beloved prog/power in the mainstream. If other people don't like metal, so what? It's more personal like it is. EVERYONE on here has had some kind of really cool experience with these prog/power bands. They appreciate us because we take the time to SEARCH out their music and when we go to shows, we don't act crazy and mosh, but we respectfully listen (for the most part) and I think a lot of that comes from the mystique and relative obscurity of the music itself....besides, what would be gained from widespread recognition of these bands? The fact that we could get htem in concert more often? It just doesn't seem like a good trade off to me.

...okay, I'm not sure how much of that makes any sense and I'm not re-reading it...I'm going to bed now.

::clap::

 

[Pellaz]

(System of a Down)

yea, their crap for sure.

Yep, they are so amazingly crappy.

Why, they're so crappy that, when SoaD were performing upstairs at the Tabernacle a few years ago, and the ProgPower pre-show party was happening simultaneously downstairs at the Cotton Club, some of the ProgPower main-stage band members were overheard wishing they could be upstairs watching System of a Down. Yipes! They sure got fooled, huh?
I'm told some of those PP musicians were taken upstairs via the backstage stairs so they could go watch that 'crappy' band.

SoaD are one of the most unique acts to be heard on mainstream American radio in the last 5 years, maybe longer. I don't like all of their songs and you'll find that even mallcore kidz tend to be sharply divided on them. They have undeniable musical talent, though, and in a nation where radio is a desolate corporate wasteland, "different" bands like SoaD, 3 Inches of Blood and Coheed & Cambria realllly stand out.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

System Of A Down are at least as progressive as Green Day, so you can't compliment one and bash the other.

 

[edgeofthorns]

Okay, about two years ago I remember Evanescence coming out and I was thinking, "Cool, sounds like a simpler Within Temptation." All of a sudden my friends were into this style, despite my playing Nightwish for most of them about a year before and them showing no interest. Now I can get them to listen to Nightwish and Within Temptation. Why do teeny-boppers let their tastes get dictated to them? Never understood that. It's like, "I don't like it if I've never heard it on Top 40 radio, but as soon as I do, it's the bomb!"

Now we have Green Day's "American Idiot". I've always sorta liked Green Day, but today I was in the car with a friend and she was talking about Track 2, and how "Oh my God, it's 10 minutes long and the tempo changes! It's like several songs in one! It's awesome!"

I reminded her that I gave her Dream Theater's Change of Seasons to listen to a few years back and she complained about that very thing. I asked her if she wanted to hear Circus Maximus's "1st Chapter", since it's what I had on me at the time. Now that kind of music is decent, although Circus Maximus will always be a lesser band than Green Day to her simply because Circus Maximus doesn't have a prominent display at the record store. Sigh.

So, for anyone who has heard this Green Day song, do you think they came up with the idea on their own, or do you think one of them picked up a prog album at some point? Either way, it's cool to see pop fans now getting used to the idea of long songs with tempo changes. Not to mention American Idiot is a concept album and it's been a LONG time since a concept album made the charts.

Well, corporate bands such as Styx were making concept albums in the 70's, so it's nothing new to see a mainstream band attempt that from time to time. Personally, I don't know what song you're referring to, because I don't like Greenday. As for Evanescense, I consider myself a fan. They're the closest thing we have in the American mainstream that even comes close to our taste in music! I hope they continue to do well. If Within Temptation's new album would get some airplay in the U.S., people would eat it alive! Their new one is so ready for airplay it isn't funny! I dig it to no end though, don't get me wrong!

 

[edgeofthorns]

Bam! Hit the nail on the head with that one! My neice is the same way... though she's grown up with classic rock, but if it's "all the rage" she is so on it! I try myself..she says she listens, she says she likes it..that's about the entire conversation.

Well, in all fairness, I was guilty of the same thing in the 80's with all of the pretty boy hard rock! You know, Winger, Cinderella, Poison, Bullet Boys, etc. Anyway, I feel like those guys shaped the music taste that I have today though! If I hadn't picked up Whitesnake's 1987 self titled album back in the day, I'd probably be listening to rap..........geeze, that's a scary thought too! David Coverdale and the boys made me the metal head that I am today!!!!!!!! I still love Whitesnake! They're one of the best bands of all time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

As more of generally what's happening, I would probably say it's vice versa, that more of the "prog" and power scene, and metal in general is starting to borrow more from the pop scene.